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Corporal Punishment in Schools
  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    I'm composing an article this week, about corporal punishment in public schools.

    Including, but not restricted to, the opinions on the street about the juxtaposition between parents not being able to spank without fear of CPS action, while school personnel are still allowed to hit with wooden boards.

    Whatever your opinion on spanking itself, why is one of these deemed 'ok' while the other is not?

    There are hundreds (probably thousands) of parents who put their kids on the "No Corporal Punishment" lists at their schools. But why are schools still allowed to use this method, while parents can not?
    What happens if your child is on the Do NOT Paddle list, and the school paddles them anyway? What do you do? What CAN you do?

    I'm not trying to advocate that you hit your children with a wooden paddle, by any means. 

    I'm simply wondering why in the world there are some states where this is still a legal method of discipline, and why in the world there haven't been lawsuits (Have They??) against school administrations for assault, after a school paddling.

    Your opinions are welcome, sources on statistics and court cases are welcome, and if I can quote you just let me know!

    community-manager


  • AnonUser23
    Posts: 2,278Guest
    I would lose my shit if anyone ever touched my kid. You want to spank my kid? Be prepared to get punched in the fucking face. That is all lol :) 
  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    Oh HMMMM here's some interesting statistics:


    image

    Nineteen states (in red) have laws permitting corporal punishment in schools
    In the 2005-2006 school year, 223,190 school children in the U.S. were subjected to physical punishment. This is a significant drop of almost 18%, continuing a steady trend from the early 1980's.

    community-manager


  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator

    Corporal Punishment in U.S. Public Schools
    2005-2006 School Year: data released March, 2008

    In the 2005-2006 school year, 223,190 school children in the U.S. were subjected to physical punishment. This is a significant drop of almost 18%, continuing a steady trend from the early 1980's.

    StateNumber of Students HitPercentage of Total Students
    Alabama33,7164.5
    Arkansas22,3144.7
    Arizona16<0.0
    Colorado8<0.0
    Florida7,185.3
    Georgia18,2491.1
    Idaho111.04
    Indiana577.05
    Kansas50.01
    Kentucky2,209.3
    Louisiana11,0801.7
    Missouri5,159.6
    Mississippi38,1317.5
    North Carolina2,705.2
    New Mexico705.2
    Ohio672.04
    Oklahoma14,8282.3
    South Carolina1,409.2
    Tennessee14,8681.5
    Texas49,1971.1
    Wyoming00

    community-manager


  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator


    The 10 worst states, by percentage of students struck 
    by educators in the 2005-2006 school year:

    RankStatePercentage
    1Mississippi7.5
    2Arkansas4.7
    3Alabama4.5
    4Oklahoma2.3
    5Louisiana1.7
    6Tennessee1.5
    7Texas1.1
    8Georgia1.1
    9Missouri.6
    10Florida.3

    community-manager


  • CanadianMamaCanadianMama
    Posts: 9,614Administrator, Moderator
    Corporal Punishment in schools is outlawed here, so suffice to say if a teacher did it there would be a big fuss. 

    (during the process of looking this up, I also discovered this: "In Canada, spanking by parents or legal guardians (but nobody else) is legal, as long as the child is not under 2 years or over 12 years of age, and no implement other than an open, bare hand is used (belts, paddles, etc. are strictly prohibited). Provinces can legally impose tighter restrictions than the aforementioned national restrictions, but none currently does so." Found that to be very interesting)

    community-manager


  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    I don't like the age of this article. I need more updated info, danggit!

    community-manager


  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    @CanadianMama oooh so between 2 and 12, spanking is ok, but after 12 is not? Reckon what the reasoning behind that is?

    (Personally, my 10 year old DD, and Spawn, are the only 2 out of 5 that aren't already bigger than me, so I'd be SOL if I were wanting to spank them, anyway! I just stare em down LOL )

    community-manager


  • CanadianMamaCanadianMama
    Posts: 9,614Administrator, Moderator
    @Love I have no idea. I think I'm going to do some research to discover that rationale. 


    Check the United Nations for world wide statistics, they'll probably have some up to date figures (if you want to use a comparison to other countries in your article, they will probably have American only statistics as well). 

    community-manager


  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    Well, I WAS just going to do statewide comparisons, but now that you mention it...

    community-manager


  • AnonUser28
    Posts: 2,083Guest
    My guess is that a child over 12 should be able to begin thinking rationally, and developing critical thinking skills. With the younger ones, they tend to learn best with a reward/punisment approach. Just speculation though...

    I am not opposed to spanking, my DD is four, and I have not yet given her a full blown spanking, although she does get swats on the butt if her behaviour is not corrected after several warnings. I would totally lose my shit if anyone else tried it though. It is no one's buisness but mine to be disciplining my child. If a teacher has a problem with her that requires anything besides the time out chair, they had damned well better call me first. I would undoubtedly charge the school/teacher with assault. No question.
  • momofdbbmomofdbb
    Posts: 9,092Member
    Off topic a little but Woooohoooo Alabama is not # 1 !
    " Wibbly wobbly timey wimey ......." The Doctor
    " I'm a leafe on the wind..watch how I soar ." Wash :((
    " Oh the wall had it comming.' Sherlock Holmes
    yea I am geek !!
  • AnonUser30
    Posts: 1,916Guest
    The only state that I've live in with corporal punishment is Florida - and I didn't know it until you posted it.

    I think that FIRST you should look at whether you can truly have CPS involved if you spank your child in those states. ????
  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    @LivingTheDream 

    Some (Most?) states have the 'no mark' rule. 
    Spanking is frowned upon, but not illegal, unless you leave a mark.
    Some(most? all?) states also disallow the use of an implement. 
    Further research is needed to comment on which states do, and which don't.

    CPS is not hanging out in your windows to monitor your discipline techniques, but if a report is made...

    community-manager


  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    In Mississippi, for example, (number ONE in corporal punishment incidents! Woooo? WTF?) teachers and school administration may use wooden paddles.

    DHS regs state that parents may spank open-handed, but may not leave marks, and may NOT use any implement.

    community-manager


  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    ^^^ which is what got me to wondering, how many other states have weird (and ironic) rules/laws such as this.


    community-manager


  • AnonUser28
    Posts: 2,083Guest
    <<corporal punishment is banned in most juvenile correction facilities in the U.S., and yet it continues in public schools. The legal paradox can be traced to a 1977 Supreme Court ruling that found the Eighth Amendment only protects convicted criminals from cruel and unusual punishment — not students confined to a classroom.>>

    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1915820,00.html#ixzz1vYx9t9O9
  • MegsueMegsue
    Posts: 1,848Member
    http://www.maine207.org/assets/1/15/Discipline_Procedures_2010-2011_1_.pdf

    This is Maine's discipline handbook. Also for in this neck of the woods, the Portland Press Herald did a series on school discipline if you feel like googling it.

    Corporal punishment isn't allowed here, but the vagueness of this handbook doesn't rule out much else. I've heard of kids being locked in dark closets. I would kill the motherfucker who did this. Especially since the incident I'm referring to was an "out of control" autistic child. REALLY???

    Should this form of discipline be more accepted? Does either way solve the problem? NO. Punishment is meant to teach a child right vs. wrong, not hurt them physically or mentally.

    Any situation that escalates to a point where teachers and/or administrators have to go to these lengths should be avoided in the first place. Kids don't flip out without a reason, it's a teachers job to keep the kids safe and make sure they aren't being bullied/teased/ or whatever to the point that they lose their shit...IMHO.

    Sorry for the rant btw
  • FoulMouthedSailorFoulMouthedSailor
    Posts: 1,900Member
    I'd flip my shit if any one struck my daughter, I've only done it once because she got way to close to the road. Looks like I live in a state that still uses it, I'll have to see if the school actually does it. If they do she's off the corporal punishment list ASAP. I'm not opposed to it on a personal or moral level, but it should be a parent do it.

    My grandfather made me pick the belt I was going to get my ass beat with, because he loved me and didn't want me being a fuck up when I grew up.

    As for Child Services showing up, I think there's a fine line between an appropriate hit and crossing the line, one or two light hits should suffice. A power slap, or repeatedly slapping a child more than twice crosses that line in my opinion and it's those types of people I see in public that make me rage
    You show the lights that stop me turn to stone, You shine it when I'm alone. And so I tell myself that I'll be strong
    And dreaming when they're gone.
  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    momofdbb said:

    Off topic a little but Woooohoooo Alabama is not # 1 !



    LOL I figured it'd be you or us. 

    Texas has higher numbers, but they have a higher population, so that brings down their average.

    An interesting comparison I feel coming on...
    How do these numbers (hopefully updated soon!) compare statistically with the juvenile crime rates in these states?

    ::sigh:: I'm never going to get this all in one article. Maybe I'll do a series of articles.

    community-manager


  • momofdbbmomofdbb
    Posts: 9,092Member
    Uhhhh the first site listed ala google.

    http://consumerist.com/2010/11/alabama-schools-paddle-kids-with-no-way-for-parents-to-opt-out.html

    And this is the second.

    http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/corporal-punishment-in-public-schools/alabama/


    " Wibbly wobbly timey wimey ......." The Doctor
    " I'm a leafe on the wind..watch how I soar ." Wash :((
    " Oh the wall had it comming.' Sherlock Holmes
    yea I am geek !!
  • momofdbbmomofdbb
    Posts: 9,092Member
    I thought it would us in Alabama or Missippissi
    " Wibbly wobbly timey wimey ......." The Doctor
    " I'm a leafe on the wind..watch how I soar ." Wash :((
    " Oh the wall had it comming.' Sherlock Holmes
    yea I am geek !!
  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    Holy CRAP @momofdbb!

    From the first article you listed:

    According to a report from WHNT in Alabama, one student was beaten until he was bruised because he failed a science test.

    The news station investigated and found that the teacher apparently didn't break any laws, but that the school district handbook doesn't specifically allow kids to be subjected to corporal punishment for purely academic offenses, such as failing a test. As for a "no paddle" list, there's apparently no such thing in DeKalb County, Alabama.

    WHNT NEWS 19 called the DeKalb County Superintendent's office more than a dozen times to ask about the rules and regulations surrounding corporal punishment. They refused to answer our questions but did say they follow Alabama state laws. We called the Alabama Department of Education and officials told WHNT NEWS 19 that corporal punishment "is authorized under the policies and guidelines developed by the local board of education."

    Melissa Lewis says nowhere in the county handbook does it state that a child can be disciplined for anything academic related. WHNT NEWS 19 also studied the handbook and learned Lewis was right. The handbook does list some violations, but academics are not one of them. Furthermore, the handbook says corporal punishment should only be administered with "moderate use of physical force" and only in order to "maintain discipline" and "enforce school rules."

    Principal Bell says all kids should always be given alternatives to paddling such as in-school suspension. But Payton says he never received that alternative. Payton said, "He just lectured us about how his dad beat him and said that's what I am going to do to you."

    Perhaps all this could have been solved if Melissa opted to sign a "no paddle list." Several schools across the country are giving the power back to the parents. But after doing some digging, WHNT NEWS 19 learned no such option exists in DeKalb County.

    The mother in this case has filed a police report and is waiting to see if the county district attorney will press criminal charges. In the meantime, the school has sent a memo "discouraging" paddling "for the time being."

    community-manager


  • SammieSammie
    Posts: 7,281Administrator, Moderator
    I'm completely and totally shocked. I can not believe that in 2012 there are schools that are permitted to hit children. I can't even wrap my head around it. It doesn't even seem real. I honestly question the mental stability of someone who can hit another person's child with a paddle. I can't even imagine swatting/hitting my own child, let alone anyone else's. It's boggling my mind.

    And if they hit MY kid? Well I hope one of my Scary Mommas are there to hold my earrings ;) I'm not a violent woman, but hit my kid with a paddle and I'll knock your ass into next week.

    community-manager


  • momofdbbmomofdbb
    Posts: 9,092Member
    @Love yep that's my state for you. I have an IEP that includes exactly what DSs punishments for bad behavior are. Spanking IS NOT ONE. At my high school they had a paddle. It was wooden and had holes drilled in it !! I graduated in 94. It was rarely used and I never got it. Was threatened with it , I was accused of forging my moms signature. My mom cleared that up over the phone. They did look a bit bummed that they didn't get to get my bum. ( lol little joke there )
    " Wibbly wobbly timey wimey ......." The Doctor
    " I'm a leafe on the wind..watch how I soar ." Wash :((
    " Oh the wall had it comming.' Sherlock Holmes
    yea I am geek !!
  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,784Administrator, Moderator
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/parents-could-face-jail-for-spanking-under-proposed-mississippi-law-hslda

    JACKSON, Mississippi, January 25, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - If Senate Bill 2180 passes the Mississippi Legislature, a parent would be in jeopardy of being jailed for years or even life for spanking a child, the Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) reports.

    The bill, titled “An Act To Amend Section 97-5-39, Mississippi Code Of 1972, To Revise The Offense Of Felonious Abuse Or Battery Of A Child; And For Related Purposes” was sponsored by Senator Brice Wiggins (District 52-Jackson).

    The legislation would make it a felony to “whip, strike or otherwise abuse any child,” thereby causing “bodily harm” to the child. “Reasonable discipline” would be an exception to this offense.

    The minimum penalty upon conviction of this crime would be 10 years in prison. The maximum penalty would be life in prison.

    However, the HSLDA says it is concerned that the terms “bodily harm” and “reasonable discipline” are not defined in the proposed law. This means that “it would be up to judges to determine whether parents had crossed the line and committed a crime worthy of imprisonment,” the organization said.

    Current Mississippi law requires that a physician must determine if abuse has occurred from a parent’s discipline of a child: “Physical discipline (not to include any form of sexual abuse) performed on a child by a parent, guardian or custodian shall only be deemed to be abuse under this paragraph when a licensed physician has determined that physical injury has occurred. § 97-5-39(2(m)). [Criminal Code].”

    “Would bodily harm include inflicting pain or leaving red marks or bruises on a child? Is it reasonable discipline to use a switch, a paddle, or other object in spanking a child?” asks HSLDA.

    “Obviously there are differing opinions on this subject, and because of this, any child abuse legislation must precisely define terms to ensure that parents maintain the right to administer reasonable corporal discipline without fear of being imprisoned.”

    The HSLDA states that it will continue to track the progress of SB 2180 and work with the homeschoolers of Mississippi to bring about a defeat of the bill.

    community-manager


  • GritsGrits
    Posts: 3,757Member
    When I was in 6th grade, my homeroom teacher actually paddled a student...and then the kid signed his name to the paddle. It wasn't a beating by any means, but a quick swat. I think that students should be punished for misbehaving at school, but not by paddling. There are so many alternatives that I think corporal punishment is kind of outdated. I'd say a majority of these states still have the laws in place "just in case", but I still can't imagine a scenario where that would be necessary.

    I live in Kentucky, by the way, and the statistic you posted actually left me speechless. 2200 students were subjected to corporal punishment?!? WTF?? Why? IMHO, give detention, suspend, assign Behavioral Rehabilitation, but leave the spanking to the parents. To me, spanking is a last resort when nothing else has seemed to get the point across and is used sparingly in my home. I'd be extremely pissed off if my child was paddled at school. It's hard to believe they still use this in ANY state when child abuse has been at the forefront of our nation's topics for debate for so long. I mean, teachers are supposed to report suspected abuse, but abuse is classified as striking with any implement other than an open hand, so how then, does it become okay for the teacher to become the abuser?? Makes zero sense to me.

    @FoulMouthedSailor, my dad made me pick a switch once. Never had to happen again. Ever.
    "I believe in being strong when everything seems to be going wrong. I believe that happy girls are the prettiest girls. I believe that tomorrow is another day, and I believe in miracles." ~Audrey Hepburn
  • scholarmom4
    Posts: 550Member
    If someone was dumb enough to hit my child at school I would be in that building and hitting them with that paddle so fast it would make their head spin!! That is MY child, so no one has the right to put their hands on them! I would be kicking some asses!!
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