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Grade Cards
  • CompletelyInsane
    Posts: 28Member
    What ever happened to the A B C D F grading scale? Are we so afraid of telling our children the are not doing well enough? I, as a mother, do not ever want to have to tell my children that they are failing at something. But being told that it wasn't good enough and try harder motivates! I for one do not want to raise "soft" children. I want my children to know that if they do not try they will not achieve. That the world is not handed to them on a silver platter. Maybe it's just me. I guess I will be the crazy mom keeping a data sheet of all their graded papers to know what letter grade they have.
    :|
  • unforgivenunforgiven
    Posts: 12,699Confessional Manager
    I think it depends on how you word it. I don't have any kids in school so maybe I missed something but did the A B C D F grading scale go somewhere? Oh and WELCOME!

    confessional-manager

    "What looks like torture is a time to rejoice
    What sounds like thunder is a comforting voice
    When what is beautiful looks broken and crushed
    And I say I don't know you
    But you say it's finished"
  • [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,551
    Elementary schools have steered away from the ABCDF scale in favor of more descriptive analysis (One example: "Exceeds Expecations, Meets Expectations, Approachig Expectations, and Needs Improvement") with comments from the teacher.

    Most secondary (high school) level grades are on the traditional scale.

    I do agree that education is going WAY too far in terms of not "hurting kids feelings" with basic honesty. We are so restricted as teachers as to what we can say or do for fear of somehow damaging a students psyche.
  • unforgivenunforgiven
    Posts: 12,699Confessional Manager
    @chocoholic OOOOOOH ok. In that case I agree with you. 

    confessional-manager

    "What looks like torture is a time to rejoice
    What sounds like thunder is a comforting voice
    When what is beautiful looks broken and crushed
    And I say I don't know you
    But you say it's finished"
  • CompletelyInsane
    Posts: 28Member
    My SS8, grading scale was: not progressing (N), Progressing toward end year goals(P), Meeting end year goal(M), and Exceeding goals(E). So throughout the year P's are good but at the end of there year M is the desired grade, correct? 90% of his grade card was P's, so he did not meet the end year goals, I interpret that as not good. 
  • CompletelyInsane
    Posts: 28Member
    Thanks! :)
  • LesboMomLesboMom
    Posts: 2,839Confessional Manager
    I have that same question...I remember getting number or letter grades in elementary. Munchkin gets 1, 2, 3, 4 which correspond to the descriptions that @chocoholic gave of meeting, not meeting, exceeding, sometimes meeting grade level expectations. It is VERY strange to me....

    confessional-manager

    Keep your face to the sunshine and you cannot see a shadow. -- Helen Keller
  • etherieletheriel
    Posts: 713Member

    My kids' schools are still on a traditional scale.

    I can understand using the "meeting/ not meeting expectations" in pre-K or kinder, but after that I think we should start holding kids accountable for doing their work.

    If I'm not supposed to do it, how come I can?
  • fatchickonabikefatchickonabike
    Posts: 5,489Member
    DD6 gets marks, as in actual numbers, and I have no problem with that. We seem to have swung to the opposite end of the spectrum from when I was a kid. My husband has a report card from first grade with a comment from the teacher that reads, "F is a very smart boy but he is a bit lazy." Gone are the days when teachers could be completely honest (and for the record, she was on the money - he's still very smart and a bit lazy).
    "The most essential gift for a good writer is a built-in, shock-proof bullshit detector.” - Ernest Hemingway
  • CrashCrash
    Posts: 8,169Member
    Yeah they've changed the grading system 3 times in the past 5 years here. It's very irritating. There's a blurb where the teacher is supposed to say how your kid is doing, but most of the time it's a copy and paste description of the course with a one sentence adaptation for the kid in question, and usually like this: T is a very attentive student.

    Huh?
    See ya in another life, sister!
  • ChristyJChristyJ
    Posts: 880Member
    K through 2 at A's school is AC (Area of Concern), (PS) Progressing with Assistance, P (Progressing) and M (Mastered).  We had M's straight down all of the sheets except for Citizenship, there I was thrilled with a  P, but we had all ACs and PSs.  In our School District, grades do start "counting" in third grade and so do your testing results.  Before that, they just use testing and grades as a baseline and the grades are very subjective. 
    Imperfect and proud of it.
  • canadamom
    Posts: 867Member
    Uggh - I found the elementary grading system to be a joke

    Failing to meet grade levels - under 50%
    Meets grade levels 65% - 80%
    Exceeds grade levels  - 81% and up.

    Now to me there is a hell of a difference between 65% and 80% in terms of understanding and effort. How do I know to help him or get onhis ass if I don't know exactly where he falls??  If he has a 65 I want to know where he needs to go over a concept.  But they don't want to scar the kids!!

    Frig - it makes adjustment to junior high harder as the for the first time they really see where they don't know what they are doing!1
  • Katescrazymom
    Posts: 1,847Member

    When I was in elementary school, we had VG (very good), G, S (satisfactory), R (we thought rotten, really it was requires improvement).  My class had the same teacher for grades 7 & 8, she used ABCDF, and my high school used ##%.

    One of the little daycare kids showed me his report card from last year, grade one, and I forget what the abbreviations were, but it boiled down to great, good and not good enough, with teacher comments.

  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,757Administrator, Moderator
    Mine have number scores, which correspond to the letter grades, and have since first grade...

    Ticking me off currently? They lowered the effing grading scale! 
    USED to be:
    A = 95-100
    B = 90-94
    C = 80-89
    D = 70-79
    F = anything below 70

    NOW, it's 
    90 - 100 = A
    80 - 89 = B
    70 - 79 = C
    65 - 69 = D
    64 and below = F

    And I keep having this conversation with my girlfriend. She's *glad*, she's excited about it. Because it means that her sons, who were formally F and D students, are now C students. Which is great for them, I guess. But it's a paper victory. Their scores aren't actually any better, just the corresponding letter grade. It's a pass/fail difference for them.

    For kids who were already A students on the old scale...it means they don't have to try as hard to get their A's. Which may not be as important, in the grand scheme of pass or fail, but it bothers ME. It bothers me a lot. My kids lose privileges for bad grades. So now, bringing home an 85 on their report card, which use to get them grounded, is still a freakin B on this scale. And I feel like a heel, but dammit, B or not, they can do better than an 85! But why should they?

    community-manager


  • CrashCrash
    Posts: 8,169Member
    Below 70 is failing? That's some harsh.
    See ya in another life, sister!
  • AutumnAutumn
    Posts: 898Member
    I agree with you @Love; they did the same switch when I was in high school.  A lot of kids only focused on the letter grade and didn't realize how the percentages were affecting their GPA.  "How am I not ranked first, I get all A's?!"  Um, yeah but your "A" was only 93%..  :-B
  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,757Administrator, Moderator
    That's the way it has been since I was in first grade, @Curious. What is the fail grade there?

    community-manager


  • CompletelyInsane
    Posts: 28Member
    I graduated HS in 2005 and the scale was 90-100A 80-90 B and so forth. I just can't believe we as a society are so afraid of telling our kids hey you could/NEED to do better! The real world isn't all oh here's a participation trophy! And I hate that I can't figure out the stupid grading scales. LOL
  • CrashCrash
    Posts: 8,169Member
    Failing is 50%, I'm pretty sure. Even in college, I think 65% was the minimum pass grade. 
    See ya in another life, sister!
  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,757Administrator, Moderator
    I think it was 65% where I went to college too. BUT the core subjects for our major had to have at least a C to progress to the next class in that sequence. Any lower, and we'd have to retake it.
    I don't know how/where they decide to draw the line, but 50%?
    Yeah, you've learned half the subject matter for this grade, so move on up to the next grade!

    community-manager


  • irishlassirishlass
    Posts: 6,726Member
    In university here, 40% is a pass. Wth is that about??
    Im looking forward to finding out about grades and stuff!! :)
    "Be who you are and say what you feel. Because those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter." - Dr. Seuss
  • unforgivenunforgiven
    Posts: 12,699Confessional Manager
    40% is a pass!?!? 

    confessional-manager

    "What looks like torture is a time to rejoice
    What sounds like thunder is a comforting voice
    When what is beautiful looks broken and crushed
    And I say I don't know you
    But you say it's finished"
  • pdxmama
    Posts: 1,470Member
    Here it's always been

    90-100=A
    80-89=B
    70-79=C
    60-69=D
    <60=F<br />
    I thought that was the standard everywhere. It's what I had in elementary all the way through high school and even at community college.
  • Katescrazymom
    Posts: 1,847Member
    In high school, 50% was a pass. Below 65, they recommended you drop a level, You could take courses in advanced, general, or basic levels. Advanced was aimed at university, general collage, and basic something not school ish.
    I think 90's was A, 80's B, 70's C, 50's and 60's D, and below was F.
    Failing for 70 seems tough, but if that's the level they're being taught....
  • fatchickonabikefatchickonabike
    Posts: 5,489Member
    50% was the passing grade here until the early '80s, then it went up to 60%. I'm talking about high school. Not sure about university.
    "The most essential gift for a good writer is a built-in, shock-proof bullshit detector.” - Ernest Hemingway
  • GritsGrits
    Posts: 3,742Member
    We have one school district that uses traditional letter grades and one that uses the newer N,M,P,E scale. I think the needs, meets, progressing,exceeds scale is fine for Pre-K and K, but the students and parents should be able to see where exactly they fall short after about first grade. The crazy thing about DD8s school is that she got ABCDF grades on actual school work, just not her report card. Makes zero sense to me.
    "I believe in being strong when everything seems to be going wrong. I believe that happy girls are the prettiest girls. I believe that tomorrow is another day, and I believe in miracles." ~Audrey Hepburn
  • chaosmomchaosmom
    Posts: 3,846Member
    Our grading scale is:

    For K-5th grade
    *Level 4- exceeds grade level expectations
    *Level 3*- meets grade level expectations with evidence of application
    *Level 3- meets grade level expectations
    *Level 2- inconsistently meets grade level expectations (with support)
    *Level 1- does not meet grade level expectations (with support)

    For 6-12th grade
    93-100 A
    85-92 B
    77-84 C
    70-76 D
    <70 F<br />(Although they still use 1-4 grading scale on EOG/EOC tests)


  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,757Administrator, Moderator
    I would seriously like to know what is going on with the education system, that different states have different grading scales.
    These scales can mean the difference between pass and fail, and they aren't consistent throughout the county!

    It is SHOCKING to me, especially in Mississippi, where our schools are generally considered to be the lowest of the low, but we have a pass/fail level at 70, and others have it at 50 or 60...

    community-manager


  • chaosmomchaosmom
    Posts: 3,846Member
    I agree @love. The education system needs a major overhaul. The standards need to be set across the board. With the expectations being so different, how can anyone compare school systems to determine where more help is needed?
  • [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,551
    Generally the pass/fail rates are adjusted to maximize passing rates- which funding is tied to. Basically, we sell out our students for government money, and don't adequately assess progress because if we did, we would lose so much in federal "race to the top" funding (I'm not saying any specific school, this is a generalization- my previous school was like this though, current one is way better).

    The concept of standardization is anathema to me for the simple reason that students cannot be standardized. Neither can schools. A school that exist in a battle worn ghetto with no funds or AP classes cannot, and should not be compared to a school in a wealthy district which has tons of extracurriculars and opportunities. Neither should the students be compared.

    Having a standard grading system might seem to make sense, but in reality it may not depending on the circumstances. I think having assessments that actually mean something are important, and I am just starting to see a new trend toward project-based learning that makes far more sense than testing or simplistic grading.
  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,757Administrator, Moderator
    @Chocoholic which brings me to another point of contention:

    We had a discussion on the boards a while back, about things our kids are learning in grades 1-3.
    If my kids, in the last term of FIRST grade, in MISSISSIPPI, are learning multiplication tables... and other states don't start that until the third grade.
    Eighth grade math---why is 8th grade math not covering the same mathematical principles nationwide? Why would that not fly? And if they someday ARE standardized principles per subject per grade level, then where's the problem with having the same grading scale to grade the exact same subject matter?

    community-manager


  • [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,551
    @love I agree that in a perfect world children would be learning at similar rates and standardization would be possible. Sadly, after teaching in one of the worst districts in this country, I came to realize that what students are about to accomplish IN school is heavily impacted by what is happening outside of the classroom. We see students only 6-8 hours a day, which means 16-18 they are out of our control.

    If parents and communities are not supportive of the learning process- if the interest in helping students learn and grow is not seated in the culture- the ability to help students gain skills on par with students who DO have that kind of community is limited. Therefore not all students start on equal footing, and are not given the same support and base to continuously progress in their academic endeavors.

    I do agree with your ideal, however my experiences have taught me that ideal is not possible.
  • LoveLove
    Posts: 12,757Administrator, Moderator
    @Chocoholic I get what you're saying.

    community-manager


  • chaosmomchaosmom
    Posts: 3,846Member
    In my perfect, logical world there would be standardized ciriculums, grading, testing, etc. Then we would give the most money to the school systems that are doing the poorest. They would be able to use that money for whatever it is that they need to help those children, whether it be better teachers, more teachers for smaller class sizes, adequate supplies, afterschool programs, etc. I understand that parents play a huge role in education but there has got to be a way that we can help these kids that are born into a crappy situation so that they can thrive. But government funding being what it is, this will only happen in my dreams. I just feel like education is so vital for our future world that we need to start directing more money in that direction.
  • [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,551
    @chaosmom - YES! I completely agree.

    Check out Harlem Children's Zone if you want to see a concept that WORKS- but it is charter, and funded privately in many ways.
  • chaosmomchaosmom
    Posts: 3,846Member
    @chocoholic - HCZ is amazing!! Yes, that is the perfect world in my head! Now, we need those all over the country. Programs like that would make a huge difference in our children's lives & in our future.
  • CompletelyInsane
    Posts: 28Member
    Chocoholic said:

    @love I agree that in a perfect world children would be learning at similar rates and standardization would be possible. Sadly, after teaching in one of the worst districts in this country, I came to realize that what students are about to accomplish IN school is heavily impacted by what is happening outside of the classroom. We see students only 6-8 hours a day, which means 16-18 they are out of our control.

    If parents and communities are not supportive of the learning process- if the interest in helping students learn and grow is not seated in the culture- the ability to help students gain skills on par with students who DO have that kind of community is limited. Therefore not all students start on equal footing, and are not given the same support and base to continuously progress in their academic endeavors.

    I do agree with your ideal, however my experiences have taught me that ideal is not possible.



    I can understand the basis of this. But I am so freaking tired of the whole ohh poor kids need extra help because of being poor. I grew up extremely poor, like lived in a tent for a summer poor, and I excelled in schoos. Currently I am an engineer. My brothers and sister did well in school as well. I do think that grades should have the same basis goals though. How can we say yep these kids are ready for college/work at the end of high school if each state has a different set of goals? Completely standardizing wouldn't be beneficial but I do think there needs to be a basis.
  • [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,551
    @completelyinsane, as I said, I think it has more to do with the culture that surrounds a student than their socioeconomic status. If your parents supported you academically, and education was important in your family, that already gives you a huge leg up.

    I agree that the system is totally flawed and many high school kids are allowed to graduate unprepared for the next steps in life- I think we need exit exams or projects to prove preparedness.
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