Motherhood Comes Naturally (and other vicious lies) is available in stores, and online, NOW. Do you have it yet? Have you told all your friends and family about it?
**Get it, share it, and spread the joy!**
Do you think drug companies are in cahoots with doctors?
-
http://www.policymed.com/physician-payment-sunshine-act/yes, there are dishonest drug reps, and yes there are dishonest physicians. These are the exceptions, not the rule. And when it's discovered, they pay, and pay a lot.You obviously have made up your mind, but given it's the industry in which I work, I know your opinion for the vast majority is incorrect.Bite me, cupcake!
-
My husband think so. He believes they have cures fir a lot of things, but pharmaceutical companies make too much money on treatments. They'd lose a lot if people were cured! I don't buy into it, but I guess it makes sense. Taking into account how much we pay for prescriptions/supplies (he's a type 1 diabetic), I can only imagine how much they're making!Get me a damn beer.
-
Reps dont have the money to spend that they used to. Working in the medical field, I know what it's like. They bring samples hoping drs will prescribe them, bringing in revenue. They bring lunch so docs will sit and listen to them. The docs I work for dont get any kick backs. They only take meetings with reps for meds that hey are already interested in or already prescribing. But thats only our clinic...
-
Yes, along with the insurance companies.my mother used to sing me a song. It went like this: "Life is short, life is shit, and soon it will be over.
-
It takes 15 years and an average cost of about $50 billion, yes I said billion, to get a drug from the blackboard to market. Maybe 1/20 drugs developed actually make it to clinical trials. THAT'S why medication is so costly. Up until about 10-15 years ago, the FDA wouldn't even accept clinical trial data that was not obtained in the U.S. so developing drugs was even more costly.There are bad apples in all industry, but most of the people who work in medical/pharmaceutical research are good, honest people trying their best to improve people's quality of life. The sad truth is that many diseases cannot be cured. No matter what the lay person may think, not everything is as simple as taking a pill. The human body is an incredibly complex piece of machinery and developing a medication must take more than just the disease it's trying to treat into account...Bite me, cupcake!
-
I am not saying they are hiding cures and it is costly to do testing to produce drugs. I worked in the medical field for years and our office would joke and laugh at the offers we would get. I went to Hawii with my office for a drug convention. We didn't pay for it, nor did we take the bait to push their product. I didn't pay for the trip and nor did my office... Who did? Less kick backs... lower prices!
-
@bellabefana this is true about the cost and the human body. insurance companies maybe aren't interested in cures but a lot of pharmaceutical and biotech companies work very hard to at least improve quality of life. but pills can't fix everything. human bodies have limits. unfortunately.
-
@angrymama I couldn't find the exact title on my netflix right now but there is a documentary that deals with this issue called (something along the lines of) Orgasm, Inc... The cover has a woman sitting behind straddling what looks like a hot pink can of soup... You should check it out. I found it to be fairly interesting :-?
-
I am deleting all my content.
-
From what I understand (DH worked alongside some Canadian military Drs during his last trip to Honduras) Canada cares more about it's people...where as our country cares more about the $$$.
I know that's cynical, and I'm not saying its our doctors, nurses, medical practitioners. We seem to forget they go to school and rack up the college loan debt big time to be doctors...they're not all in it for the money. Some are douchebags, but like @bellabefana said, there are douchebags in every field and line of work. They are the exceptions not the rules.I'm as sexy as a burp mid-kiss. Watch out! -
A lot of the cost in the U.S. has to do with our very (far more so than many other countries) strict regulatory process. Medication prices are not government controlled. Not yet at least. The recent changes in U.S. healthcare policies will likely see changes to the detriment of medical research and far few new medications being produced.The processes in place to develop and bring a new medication to market are long and costly in the U.S. The information sent to the FDA for the approval of a new medication is literally a semi-truck load. Now, with electronic data systems, much of that paper is reduced, but we have a bit of a joke in the industry about how many trees are killed to produce one new drug.Until you've actually been through a clinical trial, either as a participant or a researcher it's hard to comprehend how complex the process is. I don't know Canadian law well regarding the development and manufacture of medications, but I suspect consumer costs of medications are largely contained and/or subsidized by the government.Bite me, cupcake!
-
BellaBefana said:
Until you've actually been through a clinical trial, either as a participant or a researcher it's hard to comprehend how complex the process is. I don't know Canadian law well regarding the development and manufacture of medications, but I suspect consumer costs of medications are largely contained and/or subsidized by the government.
There is a huge amount of work that goes on long before you get anywhere near the clinical trial stage as well. Every new drug starts as an idea but making that idea into a physical product isn't nearly as easy as many people seem to think. Most compounds take years or even decades to synthesize and require not only the man power of trained researchers but also a lot of (often times very expensive) chemicals and specialized equipment. Synthetic techniques that 'should work' don't always turn out as planned and the slightest difference in two compounds can have profound biological effects. Also scaling reactions up from a small scale to something larger, even just two or three times the amount produced, isn't always straight forward.
Ts'i mahnu uterna ot twan ot geifur hingts uto.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -
Coming from a country which, until now, covers most medications and all healthcare cost, I am still shocked at the prices here. If I get a generic antibiotic here it costs around $80, in my country will be $5 without the government paying anything.
Care to explain? -
Canada has very strict regulations about medications. That's why there are medications you can get in the states that you can't get here.... (fen phen is the best example I can think of.)I think (from the very little research I've done) that the main reason is patents. In Canada we allow generic productions faster than the US. I do also believe though that the US Government is being influenced by pharmaceutical and insurance companies, and that the lobbying laws in the US need to be changed.
-
Much of the reason that drugs in the US are so costly is the process by which they are approved is long and expensive. Another reason is that lawyers now grab on to every side effect of a medication and tout it as a "bad drug" and sue the living crap out of companies.Yes, drugs are chemicals that can adversely effect a person. Just like any other chemical exposure. Pharmaceutical companies should be and are held accountable for legitimate problems with a given medication, but lawyers have begun attacking every single side effect and suing. Sorry, but these are costs are passed on to the consumer. The US is one of the most litigious countries in the world. We also have some of the most stringent regulations in the world when it comes to developing and manufacturing drugs.Bite me, cupcake!
-
I worked at Johns Hopkins for a long time. Yes the drug reps come in bringing samples. They also sponsor luncheons for the residents and stuff.I am sure, that with any industry, there might be some impropriety.From experience though, I think there are more honest docs/reps than anything. Sure, they may suggest a certain drug, but my docs usually stuck with the drugs that worked for the patients.And personally, I LOVE when my pediatrician gives me samples. He always gives me enough to run the entire course of treatment, and any money savings helps, especially as often as my DD gets ear infections.Mary :-)
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. -
It's all a big conspiracy I tell ya!!
I have to wonder if they are also in cahoots with the food industry, conspiring to produce shitty food that is not good for our bodies, therefore needing further medical intervention, etc. If we all went "totally radical" and ate good, wholesome, healthy food that nourishes our bodies, instead of the shit that goes right through us, we might be less sick.
That's ok, I don't follow my own advice either....Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids. ~Sam Levenson
You know the only people who are always sure about the proper way to raise children? Those who've never had any. ~Bill Cosby -
Ummm YES! Im a nurse...and yes, they absolutely are in 'cahoots'
Also Laurel you are exactly right...except with the food industry i think it goes deeper.
Like USGovernment deep...
Its obivous that Americans are the most unhealthy people on the planet....this is because minimum wage which hasnt moved in years is not enough to live on. And we have fast food dollar menus. At grocery stores the cheap foods are the shit foods.
I truly believe the the government wants us to remain fat and sick...because that means revenue. A healthy man needs less healthcare and therefore generates less money from the healthcare avenue.
Its all about money to Uncle Sam.
This is the same reason euthanaisa will NEVER be legalized....the system cant make any money off a dead man. But a living very ill person, diabetes, multiple wounds, obese, lupus...fucking CHACHING!!! Dollar signs in the crooks' eyes man.
.I shall futterwacken...vigorously* -
Pharm companies crank out the pills because AMERICANS LIKE PILLS. Antibiotics, antidepressants, antivirals, anti obesity, whatever. That's a trend that has developed over the last 40 years or so. I still want to gouge my eyes out over 1) docs who prescribe antibiotics/antivirals for something that probably won't respond, and 2) MFers who DO NOT TAKE ALL THEIR ANTIBIOTICS. That's a major reason why we have drug-resistant organisms now, folks. People like their docs to give them pills because it makes them feel like they're being fixed, docs like their patients to feel like they're being fixed, pharm companies are happy to perpetuate the cycle by giving the docs free samples. I realize I am generalizing here, but really what's behind all this is plain old supply and demand.
-
I am deleting all my content.
-
I can't speak to the Canadian process, as I don't know enough about it. I do know the regulatory process in Canada is very different from the US. I also know that governments outside the US can and do control how much the "wholesale" cost of a medication is, as well as the larger pharmacy chains in the US can and do negotiate prices for bulk amounts of medication, which is why Walgreen and Walmart can charge less for drug A than Mom and Pop pharma. Yes, it is somewhat about supply and demand, but not for the reasons that are being cited here.Samples are provided to physicians to get them to try the newer medications, yes, but their prescriptive practices are driven by what an insurance will ultimately pay for.Also, countries purchasing medication from US companies, are likely buying a drug that is not also manufactured in the US, and while these medications are supposed to be manufactured according to GMPs (Good Manufacturing Practice, a Federal Regulatory practice) there isn't adequate federal monitoring of these plants, and this is where many problems in the recent past have occurred.And contrary to popular belief, generics are not the same as a name brand drug. There is an allowable +/- 20% variance in the active ingredient/efficacy of a generic versus a name brand drug.People are going to believe what they want, and it's not going to matter how much evidence to the contrary I present. I've been doing what I do for almost 20 years and the vast majority people in this industry are caring, ethical, people who are doing what they can to alleviate pain and suffering.Bite me, cupcake!
-
I'm no expert in this area, but I will comment about the prices in Canada vs the US:1. Canada does allow generic drugs sooner than in the US (i believe it's 10yrs vs 15, but that's just off the top of my head...based on anti-depressants). It's not that we're buying the generic drugs, it just forces competition.2. Canada does piggy back on FDA testing and regulation of new drugs (not all, but some), however Health Canada (our regulator) is more picky about some FDA testing/processes, so just cause a drug is approved south of the border, doesn't mean it will get approved here (the same thing happens with European regulatory authorities).3. I think (I'm just speculating here) that since many provinces have drug plans/benefits in their health care that might help drive down prices.Please note, in Canada, Health Canada is the regulator, and the individual provinces administer the health care systems within their own provinces. So what happens in one province, isn't the same in another.
-
@bellabefana what is your job? Are you a drug rep? ....just curious.
-
Where on earth do you people live? I'm in shock.
If the drug companies push their stuff here then it is seriously done behide closed doors.
NZ seriously sucks when it comes to many many things but our healthcare is really good.
In NZ adults need a prescription for everything stronger then vitamins, cold medicines, anti-inflamitries and painkillers. For kids under 2years you need a prescription for everything including paracetamol. Never had a free sample for anything (including formula) and I don't know anyone who has. Pill contraception costs $3 for 6 months or if you go to Family Planning Clinics other types of contriceptions (IUD) are free or gov subsidised for under 25 year olds. Antibiotics and most other meds are free for under 6 years and about $5ish (I can't remember the exact amount) for an adult. All regular immunisations are free for kids (last ones at at 12years), some others (like flu injections) are free for the older people or people with an illness that makes them more prone to getting sick. And best of all maternity care is free.
-
@loveit: no, I'm in clinical trials, managing drug studies.Bite me, cupcake!
-
haven't read all this, but my two cents is that Medical companies are corrupt. They hold the things we need to live ransom with outrageous prices....there is no way medicine should cost what it does. Talk about taking advantage of the least among us. People go bankrupt all the time or go without procedures and medicine they need all the time...ruining their lives and retirement funds. Makes me sick (pun intended)!
I'm always misunderstood because the written word is the worst form of communication...you can't see me smiling =-) -
PallasAthene said:
While we may not develop as many new drugs as US pharm companies,
@PallasAthene this is actually a huge point. Drug development is hugely expensive. Companies like Pfizer, Merck, GlaxoSmithKlein, Eli Lily, Bristol-Meyer Squibb and AstraZeneca (just to name a few) do a lot of in house development but they also award huge grants to academic research groups to develop drugs as well. The grants can range anywhere from thousands to millions of dollars and that's just for one research group, for one idea that may never work and even if it does the likelihood of it ever reaching the public as a new drug is extremely slim. But development isn't the only thing these companies spend money on. There are thousands of research groups out there that are working to find better/shorter/more reliable pathways to make current drugs and their funding comes from the same pharma companies.
I'm not saying that it's right that our drugs cost more than yours but the bottom line is that if pharma doesn't make money they can't fund research and there will be no new drugs. Do they market their products to doctors? Absolutely they'd be stupid not to, but it's the doctor's ethical duty to prescribe medications that will benefit their patients not line their own pockets. Do some doctors choose to do the latter over the former? I'm sure there are but I'd like to think that they are in the minority.
Ts'i mahnu uterna ot twan ot geifur hingts uto.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -
I am deleting all my content.
-
I'm not sure I understand your question @PallasAthene. Do you mean why doesn't, for example, Pfizer charge the Canadian government (or whatever body as I don't have much knowledge of the Canadian health care system) more than they currently do for drugs? That's because most, if not all, large companies like that have divisions in other countries as well. Pfizer may be based in America but they still have Pfizer 'International' divisions in 45 other countries which have to abide by the laws of those countries. Also, they don't just give out grants to American research groups, they're awarded to groups around the world but if those international divisions don't make as much money they can't re-invest it into new research.
Ts'i mahnu uterna ot twan ot geifur hingts uto.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -
I am deleting all my content.
-
@PallasAthene, moreover my point is that if companies are allowed to charge more they have bigger profits, bigger profits = the ability to re-invest more into R & D and a larger or broad investment into research = more drug options.
If there's less to invest, then grants get even more competitive than they already are and if they can't get funding, groups are forced to alter their focus to something else. Changing focus isn't necessarily a bad thing (for science in general) but it does means less discoveries in the area that the group originally wanted to research, in this case, drug development.
Granted, pharma isn't the only source of funding for research into drug development (organizations like the American Cancer Society, etc also award grants) but they are a huge contributor.
Ts'i mahnu uterna ot twan ot geifur hingts uto.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -
I am deleting all my content.
-
@PhDMommy: thanks.@PallasAthene: the costs can't be spread out for many reasons, one being governments can/do control prices in other countries, and yes, to some extent here. Everyone else also pays for drugs going to 3rd World Countries that can't pay at all. Question: Do we just let these people die? Or do we just allow the spread of diseases like Aids, which originated in Africa, and is still a top killer there, because they can't pay?I've watched the industry develop shortcuts or the last 15 years to try to cut the cost of developing drugs. Those shortcuts have not worked, because I've also seen more drugs pulled off the market because of safety and efficacy issues in the last 15 years than over the last 50. Why? Because shortcuts don't work, and cheaper isn't always better.Bite me, cupcake!
-
I am deleting all my content.
-
I'm not offended, really I'm not. What I do is important and if a medication I'm working on helps one person have a better life, then it's worth it. Drug discovery and research is an intensely complex and costly process. I wish it weren't.Bite me, cupcake!
-
I am deleting all my content.
-
PallasAthene said:
I think the logical solution would be to take some of the money they spend on lobbying, or cut bonuses to CEOs. Maybe my socialist Canadian is showing, but it seems like the cost should not be borne by desperate people.
I 100% agree with this @PAllasAthene!
Ts'i mahnu uterna ot twan ot geifur hingts uto.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -
PhDMommy said:PallasAthene said:
I think the logical solution would be to take some of the money they spend on lobbying, or cut bonuses to CEOs. Maybe my socialist Canadian is showing, but it seems like the cost should not be borne by desperate people.
I 100% agree with this @PAllasAthene!
I don't disagree. But I think this should be done in all kinds of areas, not just medicine...Bite me, cupcake! -
BellaBefana said:PhDMommy said:
I don't disagree. But I think this should be done in all kinds of areas, not just medicine...
Absolutely @BellaBefana!
Ts'i mahnu uterna ot twan ot geifur hingts uto.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -
My doc does hand out samples, but she does it so I don't have to go out and pay for it. She really only gives me medicine if I need it, and if she knows something is expensive and she doesn't have samples, she will suggest cheaper alternatives or over the counter stuff for me to try first 'cause she knows I don't have any benefits right now. She's a really good egg, I kind of love her sometimes
-
Let's also not forget that the countries with $ who use the product are also subsidizing the donation of medicine to third-world countries - pharm is a cutthroat financial industry, but a lot of companies do donate some products to countries who can't afford to pay. HIV, malaria, and TB are the big ones that come to mind. Somebody has to pay for that. And while I appreciate that, I am not defending the industry because 1) their r&d is out of control and they only concentrate on drugs that affect common ailments and make them $, and b) they are so powerful that they can push FDA approval with only short-term data on side effects. You can't judge a drug's long-term issues with a 5-year clinical trial.
-
@Willilee: I'm sorry, but you are incorrect in your assumption that drug companies can push the FDA. You're also incorrect about 5 years of clinical data on adverse events. Adverse events are initially determined in animal studies, and repeatedly throughout all phases of of clinical trials. I, and most pharma companies, WISH it only took 5 years, but that's just not the case.At the height of AIDS research, the FDA adopted a "fast track" plan for new drugs to treat HIV, AIDS, and some cancers, but that only shortened the overall process by a couple of years.Also, post-marketing studies are continually being conducted to evaluate ongoing safety and efficacy issues. Would that we could obtain all the safety information available during the clinical trial process, but that's just not feasible. Although many side effects that can be reasonably assumed by the action of the drug itself, because clinical trials must be closely controlled as to concomitant medical conditions of the study subject as well as concomitant medications, you cannot account for every variable once the drug gets into the general patient population.Bite me, cupcake!
-
I am deleting all my content.
-
So tell me this, If it's not about profit and money... How does Magic Johnson no longer have HIV? What pill did he take, how much money did he pay and whos dick did he suck? Fucking ridiculous... people die from aids everyday and some how he was cured? Bull shit!
-
The HIV medicine that is available nowadays can almost make the HIV in the blood serum undetectable. He was not cured, but they have it under control very well. This is not atypical for some HIV positive patients.
-
@ricecakesyo: thank you. No Magic Johnson is not cured. He may have undetectable viral load levels, which is quite common with the antiviral cocktail medications, but to date their is no "cure" for HIV.Bite me, cupcake!
-
@Pallasathene I agree about Cuba after watching this documentary clip from SICKO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ncoFQdBIvU
and then opening my bill for dh to go to the ER twice for a life/death allergic reaction where they only gave him a shot I owe $1600 (and that's after insurance paid).
I'm always misunderstood because the written word is the worst form of communication...you can't see me smiling =-) -
I am deleting all my content.
-
As a drug rep for 26 years I CAN say I was never in choots with anybody. Samples are given so the doctors can try a drug. they can not sell sampo[les that is against the law. Lunch gives the doctor a chance to take a break, Lunch is modest I usde] Boston MARKET A LOT.
the truth has arrived...
Categories
- All Discussions20,995
- Site Events
- ↳ SM Site Events34
- ↳ Calendar of Events2
- ↳ Hall of Fame8
- ↳ Motherhood Comes Naturally (and other vicious lies): Book 219
- ↳ Scary Mommy Day10
- ↳ Confessions: The Book42
- FAQ's
- ↳ Resources2
- General Chat
- ↳ Daily Discussions3,466
- ↳ Support/Prayer/Advice847
- ↳ Support Confessions2,590
- ↳ The Scaries and Best of Confessions88
- ↳ Travel75
- ↳ Home Life901
- ↳ Food and Recipes134
- ↳ Hobbies/Crafts/DIY/Gardening54
- ↳ Health & Beauty163
- ↳ Work/School354
- ↳ General2,439
- Hot Topics/Debates
- ↳ Debate/Hot Topics394
- ↳ Politics & Religion124
- ↳ Abortion/Adoption/Birth Control/IVF32
- ↳ Circumcision5
- ↳ Welfare Reform15
- ↳ Gun Control9
- ↳ Gender/Sexuality/LGBT33
- ↳ Vaccinations8
- ↳ Pediatric Nutrition (The Feeding Wars)18
- ↳ Discipline Techniques19
- ↳ Mompetitions: SAH/WOH/WAH and Parenting Styles7
- ↳ Birthing Options20
- ↳ Health/Hygiene/Smoking/Toking/Drinking29
- ↳ News/Current Events352
- Seasonal/Occasions
- ↳ Birthdays142
- ↳ Valentine's Day18
- ↳ Easter10
- ↳ Mother's/Father's Day39
- ↳ Halloween18
- ↳ Thanksgiving14
- ↳ Winter Holidays215
- ↳ Other Special Events26
- Children
- ↳ All Ages426
- ↳ Babies518
- ↳ Toddlers652
- ↳ School Aged537
- ↳ Teens208
- ↳ Pets217
- Relationships
- ↳ Friends/Family547
- ↳ Romantic1,007
- ↳ Step Relations96
- Just For Fun
- ↳ Games80
- ↳ Book Club62
- ↳ TV/Movies229
- ↳ Music45
- ↳ Social Media112
- ↳ Just for Grins272
- Health
- ↳ Diet/Weight/Fitness151
- ↳ General Health Issues338
- ↳ TTC/Pregnancy/PP642
- ↳ Special Needs127
- Brand Opportunities
- ↳ Pure Matters Wakeup23
- ↳ Jingos! Challenge1
- ↳ LapFit9
- ↳ Ouidad12
- ↳ Pyure Sweetener13
- ↳ InviCible5
- ↳ Bedroom Chemist7
From the Confessional
-
I want to take my kids and run screaming from DH b/c he has gone from being an absent husband & father to completely hovering! I want a fuckity fuck fucking divorce!!!
-
Pretended to be tired and exhausted after spending the whole day with ds so I didn't have to make dinner. Actually only exhausted over how much fun we had together. Bought take out anyway.
-
I know twilight is such a bad message to young girls however as a married mom of 2, I love the books and movies and secretly fantasize about a love like that, not to mention the sex/attraction
-
I've lost 25lbs, am down to a size 6, my stomach is perfectly flat for the first time in YEARS and I still feel like a cow. WTF is the matter with me?
Shop Scary Mommy
