Ive had the same issues with my parents.. I got pregnanat at 15. I wanted to give my baby up but my parents said no. My parents adopted him and my mother has held him over my head for the last 13 years.. I hope things get easier for you! I eventually just moved out one day and never went home. I love my son but hes more like my little brother..

Maybe see if CPS has any way they could help the family work through these dynamics?  From the few CPS people here on the boards, it seems CPS would want you to be succesful in putting your family back together if at all possible.

I think you put your parents in the role of raising your child and they are taking it seriously.  It's hard for you to suddenly want to be a part of this childs life and call the shots because you have an unstable past.  It would be harder for the child if you came and went if you were in the active role as mother.  Your parents are trying to prevent that.  They are also viewing you like a child instead of a responsible adult.  The only thing that will make them see you differently is time.  You should also consider following their rules with your daughter to smooth things out and hopefully see that it is best for her.  (of course both your parents need to agree with the rules which doesn't sound like it's happening now).   Family counseling can come in handy to help you all move on and to deal with issues without being passive agressive.  Adding another child to the mix is hard because you aren't really ready for all that again.  You really need some time to figure out you.  You have a pretty good talent as a writer... I wish you had time to grow into yourself so you could give your children the best of you.  You have a long road ahead but we are here for support.  I think staying with your parents might be the best thing especially if you can get counseling to work out some issues.  This time around you will get to keep your newborn and hopefully breastfeed, so you have the boobs, you call the shots!  :-)  Hopefully it will be everything you want! 

(((hugs)))

Huge huge hugs. I'm not sure what else to say. You and in a tough situation and you have done a really fantastic job to get where you are now. Keep going.

I think it would be best for your daughter to go back to aunt and uncle. Your mother should not be saying things she is in front of your daughter. Also think about adopting out your child you are carrying now. You need to have time and space to get your life figured out and its not fair to bring a child into that. When you are stable, have your finances together, and are married, then think about having a child. Being a mother is all about loving them enough to do what is best for them. Hugs and good luck! I will be thinking about you.

the child is only 19 months old, she hasn't been traumatized, she doesn't even really know what's going on. she won't remember any of this. yes its been hard for the whole family but just b/c they took on a responsibility they pretty much had no choice in taking, it was either that or let the baby go to strangers, doesn't make them saints. ur parents can't have it both ways, either they want the kid or they don't. they can't say they do and then resent u for it and act like its a burden, and they can't can't say they don't want her and then expect to be able to control everything to do with her. its one or the other, either they back off and let u be the primary caregiver or they want to raise her their way and they don't expect u do to anything and don't act like its this huge burden. if they don't want to take care of her, let u do it. how much longer till u can take her?

i didn't perceive this as she gave her daughter up, she is just doing an improvement period. she will get full custody back

@shadylane I respect your responses and support you are giving to this young mother and it's interesting to read the perspective of a mother who has been in that situation vs the family who has been affected by the addict.....two sides of the same coin.
I will dispute tho saying A child can't have been affected (traumatized in your words) if she is only 19 mos old. Infant and toddlerhood is when children learn trust, bonding,sense of security etc etc. This child has been from foster home to aunt and uncle to grandparents and now with mom (if I read that right) that's a lot of change for a small child......and I'm sorry but I do think her parents should be praised for what they are doing. To me it seems as if they are putting the best interest of the child 1st instead of the best interest of their adult child. Sorry but having also been a child growing up with addicted parents and raised by my grandparents I will always take the side of the child.

Once again OP best of luck to you.....I also am rooting for you

@lifeofchaos I was holding back from saying that. Many many theorists argue that the first 2 years are the most important. They determine everything. I tend to agree with the people like freud, darwin and bowlby who did extensive research into children.

But the fact is that this baby is loved, and that is really positive. I think what needs to be done now is whatever is best for the child. Where she is most secure and the most stable environment. Whereever that is.

Can you guys go to counseling? I'm not sure what else to say. I think a counselor would be more qualified to help everyone involved learn what their role should be in this complicated situation.

On another note. Don't give up on your daughter. Just love her. Your love is the best thing to give right now. Children are difficult to raise and deal w/ in even the most ideal environments. She can probably sense the tension in this family unit. Just let her know she's loved.

Also, CONGRATULATIONS!!!  Way to go getting sober!  You should be proud of yourself. Just keep fighting & more and more people will see and believe the turn around you're making in your life.  You are strong enough to do this.   BIG HUGS TO YOU!!!!

(sorry I don't have any better advice)

I just don't really see what the trauma was if she wasn't abused or neglected, but maybe my definition of the word isn't correct. I'm not saying she wasn't affected at all but I don't think she'll be permanently scarred. Children are so resilient, they can easily overcome something like this where she's always been loved and well cared for. Its def hard to not have had that initial bonding period in the beginning of her life but that doesn't mean they will never bond. I didn't get to have that either when dd was first born and I was scared I wouldn't have that instinctive connection with her but we totally do. @SqueakyTweaky needs to start being the primary caregiver and the parents need to leave them alone and let them spend time together and bond. By the time she gets out on her own, she will be mommy. And that will be what the little girl remembers. Of course the most important thing is that little girl, I am totally on her side. I understand the grandparents can't just turn off their protectiveness, but I don't see why they need to treat their daughter badly to protect their granddaughter. She has been thru a lot and is extremely fragile right now in early recovery, and her parents need to realize that. She needs love and support even if she did make mistakes. I'm not saying they should coddle her or do things her way, but they don't need to make her feel even worse about herself either. That's not beneficial to anyone. My parents did the exact same things to me and it really took a toll on me emotionally. After u have been beaten down for so long u eventually just stop caring, u feel so worthless. I couldn't do anything right in their eyes no matter how hard I tried, I felt like giving up and letting them have her. If they had just given me a little encouragement and understanding it would have made a world of difference. Even if they don't trust her yet or believe she's changed for good, they can still believe IN her that she CAN do it if she tries. Its hard to believe in urself when nobody else does either. They should be building her up and encouraging her and preparing her to be on her own. All they're doing now is setting her up for failure. I realize she has to do this herself and she can't let negative people get to her, I know that better than anyone but its very hard to not let it get to u when its 24 hours a day constant criticism. U start believing it and it becomes increasingly difficult to just brush it off. She has to do this herself, nobody can do it for her but they can at least support her emotionally thru it. A little understanding goes a long way. I also have people telling me that when I move dd with me full time she will be traumatized and scarred for life, it just isn't true. Of course it will be confusing and take some time to adjust but she will be fine. They can't live with her parents forever. People have to move with their kids in and out of situations all the time. And it doesn't sound like the grandparents totally have the child's best interests in mind considering the comments they are making in front of her. No matter how bad she messed up that is unacceptable. Nobody deserves that. My father verbally abused me in front of dd and I will not tolerate that ever again. I truly appreciate what they have done for her but they were wrong in many ways. This family def needs counseling if the grandparents can't realize that what they're doing is counterproductive. I hope squeaky can endure the situation until she can have full custody back and get a place of her own for her children.

@shadylane a lot of what you are saying is totally making sense to me. I just want to stress the importance of security and stability, and if a mother is so fragile, she is in no state to be looking after a child who has had a rocky start.
Humans are resilient. Our emotional needs are not. Babies, especially at that age are sponges. They are learning EVERYTHING! If a baby is consistently left to cry, they will learn there is no hope. If a baby has no consistent reliable caregiver, they will develop trust issues.
@squeakytweaky I hope you can begin to make a bond with your little girl, if that's what you think is best for her. We are here for you.

As a foster mother to many and now have two in our care permanently, I have seen first hand what trauma is caused when children are moved from place to place at a young age. It turns into Attachment Disorder (which both our boys have) and in some cases can become Reactive Attachment Disorder, which I have also experienced and suspect one of our boys is bordering. Children need the security and stability of loving people around them. They need consistency. They need to be allowed the time to attach to someONE, not many someone's coming in and out of her life. Not constant change.

I was a single mom many years ago living with my family. Lord knows it was hard! I did not have a background of drugs or alcohol, etc, I had a background of stability and education, but lacked $ and self esteem. I lived with them from my daughter's birth until just before her sixth birthday. My mom died not long after she turned three. The years were very hard on me. I was in my mid 20's and being treated like I was 14 even when I was working full time. My dad could be a complete ass, but of course, under his roof, his rules. The only way to live my life was to get my own roof, so I did. It just took a while!

I tell you that because I want you to know I have experienced being an adult yet being treated as a child. And I have experienced (and still do) the trauma that affects children later in life because of what happened in their very early years. They may not necessarily 'remember' what happened to them, but their brains are affected and grow differently. They struggle making attachments. Now is the time to let your daughter attach to someone. Stop moving her around. I stand by what I said, at this time in her life with all the moving she has done, the word 'mother' will mean nothing to her. She may call you mother or not, but she won't associate that with the person who is there for her 24/7 regardless. I know this because DS6 first came to live with us when he was 2.9 years and every woman was mommy and every man was daddy. He had been moved enough that he could not make the connection, could not attach. He is still struggling.

DS8 was breasted by his mom then removed when he was about 9 months. He has been in many homes before coming here permanently. It has been more than three years with us now and he is still struggling with attachment. I think he is borderline RAD. His bio mom is 'tummy mummy' to him, but he has zero attachment. Both boys will see their bio families off and on, but there isn't much in the way of affection, etc. they see them because they are family, but we are mom and dad. In every way, even legally now.

Sorry to waffle ... but I want you to see that sometimes doing the best for your kids is also knowing when to let them go. When to realize they are better off elsewhere. It does NOT mean you need to disassociate yourself forever, it just means you acknowledge that she will be better off with people who are 100% willing and able to form an attachment with her for life, regardless of behavior, etc! And from what you have said, you are not in an emotional state to do that. I also do not think our parents are the best for her based on your description. They should not ever belittle you, especially NOT in front of your daughter or talk bad about you to her, ever.

I do wish you luck and would be more than happy to talk to you about this more, if you wish. Feel free to pm me.

I am totally overwhelmed with gratitude for all the positive comments from everyone, thank you guys so much!!  Such a relief, I was terrified I'd come back to "bashing"...that I would hear from other people, what I believe (and hate most) about myself... So to hear otherwise is a huge relief.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I see a lot of people suggesting family counseling - I agree that this would be the best move for a start, but I don't know if we could convince my father to do it.  Basically they spent a lot of time and money over the years sending me to different therapists and rehabs; I tried on a lot of different labels that all boiled down to being mentally unstable in general, and as a result my dad (who didn't put a lot of stock in psychology and especially psychiatry - he's anti-medications, does not really understand mental illness) has no faith in such means.  He's commented that my mother and I should go "for our problems" because we're the ones that are nuts (not his words, but not far from them, either).  He truly, truly believes that he is ALWAYS right 100% of the time!  Has to be his way or the highway.  Blames my mother for me turning out the way I did and therefore thinks this time around he should get to make all the decisions, as evidently he believes she was in charge of my childhood (which honestly, I don't remember, except for my mother having a temper problem and always criticizing me and comparing me to other kids in a negative way..Dad wasn't around much b/c of shift work). 

I think that this situation started out as being about what was best for Chrissie - them wanting her to be with her mother, me - but somewhere along the way, for my dad, the legal issues turned into a personal vendetta and a drive to "win" over my aunt, his twin sister.  I know he was quite shocked at her behavior, these were people that were always very close to my parents & I all my life until this stuff with my daughter and then it tore everybody apart. 

Here's what further complicates matters... I honestly do not believe my parents (particularly Dad) will EVER view me as responsible or "together" enough to give me custody of my daughter.  Because they are the legal guardians, it will be their choice and they are not even open to the IDEA of ever letting me go anywhere with Chrissie.  Actually, my dad openly believes that I will never make anything of my life (that I will never work, b/c I have felonies on my record and it has been hard to find employment - and he says even if I do it'll be some minimum wage job that'll never be enough to support a child and myself, etc).  Even from the beginning he pretty much said he'd have to see me "doing right" under HIS conditions, for like 5 years before he would even begin to consider letting me have my daughter.  When they went after her they did it with the idea in mind that she and I would both live here, presumably for good...What has changed is that he's decided he wants to be the one completely in charge.  He doesn't want to let me raise her b/c in his mind he's always right and I'm always wrong.  And he says the same thing will happen if I have this new baby in their house, that my mom will take over with her too.  And I think he's right on that point :(  They basically expect me to take on all the daily tasks they don't want, but do not want to let me have any of the control or authority.  How could I raise a child in front of them when they treat ME like one?  When they constantly override what I say & what I do?  And ignore my parenting beliefs? 

And here's the thing.  At the risk of sounding like a horrible person, at this point I am truly more concerned about the future of the baby in my tummy.  Chrissie already has many people that care for her and will take care of her no matter what; my soon-to-be-born daughter has nobody but me (and to an extent, her other grandparents and possibly her daddy, it remains to be seen!)  My parents are all about Chrissie, Chrissie, Chrissie, and have expressed little to no interest in my new baby.  It's very probable that if I choose to move in with baby daddy, they will completely write me off.  We've had lots of issues in the past with me moving back & forth between this house & his, plus they're just the type to where if they don't get their way with me, they'll essentially disown me.  I know my mom is going to be very angry and view my move as abandoning Chrissie, when really I'm wanting to do what is best for both babies.  I'm scared to death about actually giving birth, b/c thats when the shits going to hit the fan about "where will I take the baby"...Mom assumes here, but clearly I'm thinking of going there, so... All kinds of drama will probably erupt!

It just greatly annoys me, too, that I can't spend any quality time with Chrissie b/c I always feel like instead of naturally interacting with her, I'm having to just do what THEY think I should be doing, so I can avoid fighting/arguing or getting criticized in front of the baby.  My mom's always getting in those awful little jabs... (tonight, she did it again... I had just gotten home from an OB appt and was eating dinner, went in the bathroom to ask her a ? and she says "You know, you COULD stay in here with your daughter and actually talk to her for a change"... good grief!)  She gives me evil looks when she 'has' to be the one reading books to my daughter *sigh*... Every morning when Chrissie's got to go to daycare, my mom raves about how sorry she is that Chrissie has to get up early and be "stuck" at a daycare b/c this wasn't "how things were supposed to be" (she had assumed my 82 yr old grandma was going to volunteer to watch the baby every day all day with me just b/c thats who kept me when I was little!  nuts, right?!)

Oh, and here's something else that I disagree with that my parents have continued to let go on, something else I'd love to have an opinion on... They're required by court to let Chrissie spend 1 weekend per month w/ my aunt & uncle, however, they have chosen (b/c they were asked) to allow her to spend the whole weekend every other weekend w/ them.  I'd always said that this is exactly what I didn't want to happen, her having to live like in a divorced household (if at all possible)  If they had gotten her, I would've stepped back. But they haven't done so.  I even overheard my dad's conversation w/ his sister, talking about what their relationship to Chrissie and how it should be perceived, what they want/expect her to call them, etc -- In my mind, why is this conversation even HAPPENING??  Why should they be anything but my aunt & uncle, which should be a relationship of no particular importance, in a normal scenario...right? 

But it's hard for me to tell them "no, don't let her go over there" (even tho its what i believe) b/c I'm on bed rest and can't really care for her myself.  [and admittedly, there's a lot of inclination on my part to back completely off and let them make the decisions and take care of Chrissie, since I'm planning on most likely moving out with the newborn]  Chrissie really seems to have a rough time when she comes back to our house.

I've just about made up my mind (just! about!) thinking moving out will truly be best for both children, but I am now concerned about the aftermath of such a decision.  How will I deal with my parents?  How should i handle my relationship w/ Chrissie?  how should things go at that point?  oh, and what to tell them during the "moment of truth"... w/o them totally perceiving me as the "bad guy", b/c I AM eternally grateful to have their help with my daughter...

 

they want to do things their way, yet they make snide comments and give dirty looks when they do it? u need to get her out of there

if i had been given some of this advice when i was in this situation, i would have been crushed. just saying. i don't know if she really wants her kids or not, but if so...

I've been debating with myself on what to say here...this is an awful situation for all involved.

I'm glad @livinthedream brought up what I was thinking. And I know this too well from several friends' kids & drugs. The age you are when you start using will be the emotional & logical age you remain until you stop. While chronologically you may be mid twenties, this is reading to me as a teenager's point of view, a young teenager.
In no way should you take that as an insult...but you can use that knowledge to mature & refine your thinking.

One friend's son is 24, started using at 13. He's been clean for just under two years. He actually just went into a program because he thought he was going to start again. Has a felony, finds jobs with difficulty, messes up & gets fired. All talk & no follow through. BUT. He has come so far, so fast. The past year the difference in his maturity is amazing. The 1st year we saw no difference.

He's finally getting that he's always the victim. Of drugs, cops, his record, everything. If he messes up it shouldn't count. He should always get a break because, well, it's him. Rules at work, job performance, laws, you name it. If he does take any responsibility it's the ok, I was wrong, but...then he proceeds to tell you how everyone else is more wrong, unfair, etc., etc.

He is just now starting to hear himself & his excuses. He was lucky enough to get into a Salvation Army program that offers meals, housing, counseling, full time work. I talked to him a few weeks ago, what he thinks he needed most was a schedule, responsibility, & being held accountable.

The best thing about this to me? Besides his future looking up & him growing up?
It's that he is finally getting that the world will not adapt to him & his needs & wishes.
He needs to learn to adapt to the world. Follow directions from an employer. Obey laws.
Drop the "I'm special" attitude & realize that all his crap about life being unfair was just that. Crap.

I am a strong advocate for counseling. But at some point, I think it's detrimental when a person starts to overdo it. Spends countless hours discussing themself, and thinks everyone needs to stop & focus on them. Listen to them. Change for them. And the focus should always be on them & what they need.

I have to go, but I would like to touch on other things you brought up later.
And before I do, I wanted you to consider the maturity thing.
And to give you a little background on my experience with 1 person.

You always have the option to skip over posts with my name on them. :)
I'm figuring that if I can't get this situation out of my mind, then maybe I need to address it.

I think you're a smart woman. Something made you bare yourself here, on a mommy site.
You said yourself, you thought you would be bashed.
That tells me that you really are looking for honesty here. Not support. Not criticism.
You're teetering between selfishness & maturity.
With that maturity is going to come taking a hard look at where you were, where you are, and more importantly, where you go from here.
Bbl...

@peace I agree with you as well. To me, this reads as immature and selfish. I feel as though you're in no position to be making demands. This is your first year being sober. Not only are you pregnant, but you fought for a child that you are now unsure if you actually want around. I'm sorry, but kids that age can be spoiled and bratty and they're freaking toddlers! Exactly what did you expect her to be like?! And how do you expect your family to treat you after everything that has happened.. You ought to expect wariness and over proctiveness and bossiness... Kind of comes with the territory when having to deal with a drug addict for that long... I know. I've dealt with someone close enough to me that this thread hit home. I could hear her in you and it instantly grated at my heart. I'm proud of you for being sober; I am. I also think you need to take a hard look at yourself and your actions and realize why your family is acting the way you are and why your daughter is acting how she is.

@gingersnap you are so sensible!!

One more resource to add because I mentioned the term "toxic", this is what I mean:

@SqueakyTweaky I read this whole thread and have followed it with interest, wondering what you are going to do. I don't really have any advice, the whole situation seems very confusing, kind of damned if you do damned if you don't.

My xh is an addict, never recovered, so good for you for getting sober, I have an idea of how hard it can be, having gone through a small amount of recovery with my xh (court ordered that he worked his way through to appease the courts then went right back as soon as he could.) So congrats on that and keep it up, I know it's a daily struggle.

Whatever you decide to do, can you stay involved in Chrissie's life, even a little? Is that something your parents would allow?