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@typoFaery, I skimmed. LOL. Thanks! :DSuck it up buttercup!
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With that info, I agree, it's disrespectful.Suck it up buttercup!
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IMO, if the Jewish people here on this site or anywhere else for that matter, take issue with what happened, then that's enough to tell me it's wrong.
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The user and all related content has been deleted.well behaved women seldom make history
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The user and all related content has been deleted.well behaved women seldom make history
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The user and all related content has been deleted.well behaved women seldom make history
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@mammateeroll, in a way, yes. The Church of Latter Day Saints is the fastest growing religion on earth (and apparently the afterlife as well).
All church members are encouraged to go on "missions" where they proselytize to different communities around the world. My old roommates all proselytizes constantly, I think I presented a fun challenge for them.
This is why i do not believe this posthumous baptisms are well intentioned, but rather the result of trying to gain membership.
This is also why I will never vote for Romney. I wrote a senior paper on the LDS community after living with my roommates, and was shocked by so much of what I found out about them. -
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The user and all related content has been deleted.well behaved women seldom make history
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The user and all related content has been deleted.well behaved women seldom make history
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The user and all related content has been deleted.well behaved women seldom make history
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Im not saying i ever thought it wasn't in poor taste or disrespectful, i just didn't realize they understood how disrespectful it is. I stand corrected.Suck it up buttercup!
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:&)£|*[!+|¥]*\=>,*
http://mobile.boston.com/art/35/news/nation/articles/2012/02/29/mormons_baptized_slain_reporter_daniel_pearl/
Are you shitting me? This religion is just not ok. -
@chocoholic Dude seriously WTF. Do they have a hard on for converting dead Jews or something.. it seems almost fucking intentional. Hmm how can we be the most offensive assholes around. I know, lets posthumously baptize a bunch of Jewish people because ya know they havent been shit on enough. Why arent they like posthumously baptizing L Ron Hubbard or something? *facepalm*
And I know this is going to offend but I dont care. The special underwear brigade can go piss up a rope for all I care, no amount of "good intentions" can excuse this level of asshattery.
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Oh my God, I've never seen this before, this is horrific and wrong.Okay, granted I'm a little rusty on my theology, but it was my understanding that one has to be saved and accept JC as their saviour to be legitimately baptized anyway, which is why infant baptism is a fallacy. Also, the whole act of being dipped or whatever it's called into the water is significant and key (another reason why infant baptism isn't really baptism) - it symbolizes washing away the sins or something like that. I'm pretty sure I have my facts straight, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - I'm talking about the biblical meaning of baptism and the Mormons still believe in the Bible, no? The Book of Mormon isn't intended to replace the Bible, I don't think. Thus, they should know this whole practice is bullshit anyway. Aside from being offensive and arrogant, it's biblicly (is that a real word?) inaccurate and wouldn't be recognized by God anyway. Jesus did say to go forth and preach, absolutely, but I'm almost certain he also said that only saved believers should be baptized. I'm not Jewish, but I still find this offensive, both as someone who is horrified by the atrocities of the Holocaust and as someone who doesn't appreciate others doing things in the name of my God that go directly against what He said in the first place.
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@mommydearest I thought so too, I always read that part of it is accepting JC and submitting to god and asking for your sins to be washed away. I know this and I am a pagan! Well they apparently have someone stand in for the deceased so I guess they get to make the decisions and do the dunking? Dont know how that makes it better. I will never understand it. Takes way too much arrogance and ego for me to wrap my brain around.
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@MommyDearest just to clarify a couple of things about infant baptism. I'm Catholic and the reason we baptize at such a young age is to wash away original sin that we inherited by the acts of Adam and Eve as well as welcoming the child into the church family. Later you choose the sacraments of reconciliation (confession), Eucharist and to be confirmed which makes you a full member of the Church. During a baptism the child's parents and godparents make a promise to raise the child to know Jesus and to live as a Christian role model. We are also asked reconfirm our baptismal promise every time we attend a baptism (they often happen during mass) and on Holy Saturday or Easter Sunday. Just FYI :)
Ts'i mahnu uterna ot twan ot geifur hingts uto.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -
How fucking arrogant can you be??? Proselytizing to the living is one thing - at least they can tell you to go take a flying leap - but capitalizing on the notoriety of famous dead people by bringing them into your faith is beyond the pale. Who the hell are you to decide what's best for anyone else, let alone someone who is dead and has no power to stop you? And someone from a faith whose living members have asked you to cease and desist? Who the hell do you think you are? WTFFFFF?"The most essential gift for a good writer is a built-in, shock-proof bullshit detector.” - Ernest Hemingway
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My husbands family is hard core Mormom and I live with their practices everyday. We, my household, is not Mormom but we my husband knows no other way of life.
That being said...
They do it all the time! My husband has been baptized probably 20-30x as a child for people who have past. I at one point had to make it clear that if I pass away, no one in his family is to baptize me. I was told by his sister, if she prays about it and receives a message to baptize me after death, she will. They feel that after death, we none believers find faith and send messages to have baptized us.
This isn't all Mormons, just some.
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@fatchickonabike word.
My Mormon friends have already told me the same thing @still_ur_mommy. I said if they try and pull that shit I will come back and haunt their asses.
Mormons follow a leader who apparently has direct communication with God, allowing them to make changes to their religion on the regular (they totally change with the times-didn't accept black people for a long time, no gays, now they accept blacks and are moving towards accepting gays as well). -
They follow the profit, who can change anything at anytime. Your right, they believe he talks directly to God.
They believe there are different levels to afterlife and that some true believers can see threw the shroud into after life. They are capable of receiving messages from people who have past. -
I want to say this.
In all my years being surrounded by Mormons they truly are some of the nicest people. I have faced more prejudice coming from other faiths then I have from the Mormon church. Most of the time, if they are faced with something the church has deemed a sin. They just walk away. It's very rare to get into an argument with a Mormon over religious beliefs.
I was raised Wiccan my whole life. His family excepted me and just said they hope someday I can see the light and come to them. -
Also, them baptizing Ann Frank, as rediculouse as that may be, they did it because someone honestly and truly feels they have received a message from her to do it. In order for it to have been approved, in had to be prayed upon by the elders and council. It actually was done out of love.
I agree it is the most rediculouse move ever, but if you don't believe it is capable of having any true warrant, what's the big deal?
I personality don't think it is a true baptism because I feel a person needs to request to be baptized and alive. -
This is horrible...i understand a religious group spreading their beliefs...But to baptize a dead person? Have some respect for her, her family, her RELIGION, her death and her memory...Im pretty extraordinary in an ordinary way
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It's a big deal to those of us who are Jewish. It's an Afront to the Jewish faith (which I might add is what most holocaust victims died trying to protect). It offends me that people don't think it's a big deal, because it is. It's insulting, it's arrogant and no I don't believe their intentions were good at all. It is a sign of disrespect not just for Judaism but for everything those people went through.
Btw, I have nothing against Mormonism, most Mormons I have net have been tolerant and accepting and wonderful, but THIS is NOT okay! They've been asked to stop and they haven't. -
Oh it is very insulting and terrible. What I mean is that they do this ALL THE TIME and no one hears about it because it is preformed in a temple, and in order to be able to attend a temple you must be deemed worthy. So I'm surprised this has leaked out.
Also, I may be wrong, but in order for this to be approved the person requesting the baptism must have some blood tie or relationship with the deceased. So for this to be done it was either the profit himself who was told by God to do this. Or a descendent of some sort.
Either way it is morally ethically wrong. I have argued with my husband thousands of times why stuff like this is wrong but you can't convince someone of something when they truly feel they are right. -
Oh, I know the "reason" behind it, @PhDMommy, but it was still something that the Church made up and is not recommended or even mentioned in the Bible. I was talking specifically about what the Bible says.
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Why is it when people are doing something completely dickish, as long as they had good intentions, everyone excuses them being an asshole? Especially when their "good intentions" are self serving.
@Still_ur_mommy I know you arent condoning this and aren't Mormon, just giving my thoughts on this.
There is such a thing as common sense and a sense of decency, even if they think they are receiving messages to baptize someone who is dead and of a different faith, they should always look at it through the filter of wither or not this is something they WANTED to hear vs an actual message. Like I said I am pagan and I deal with divination and other forms of magic so I do believe people receive messages, but I believe you must always temper your actions when considering the filter it came through and if it is something you wanted vs something true.
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Sorry @MommyDearest I misunderstood your earlier comment. I think it's a matter of interpretation....
Ts'i mahnu uterna ot twan ot geifur hingts uto.
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -
anyone here read the book Under the Banner of Heaven? It's about the formation of the Mormon church, really good read.
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We are not Mormon and are not Jewish, but I have recently found out through a friend of my mothers that the Mormon church now has listed my father as one of their members. I can't figure out how to undue this or where to even complain. I know my father is rolling over in his grave over it.She explained to my mother this is done all the time, and for 1 reason so that the church can claim to have the most members when they go on mission.My father was baptized Lutheran and became Atheist, he was also a decorated Military solder who fought for the ideas of this country and the freedom of choice. I feel that the Mormon organization just doing this slaps my family and particularly my father in the face. We were never consulted and this just makes me sick.
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Is anyone on your family Mormon? Usually it is done at the request of a family member.Biting's excellent. It's like kissing. Only there's a winner.
"Dobby never meant to kill! Dobby only meant to maim or seriously injure.” -Dobby
Genealogy: Where you confuse the dead and irritate the living. -
Nope not a Mormon in our bunch - my mothers friend told us that its actually a common practice for "elders" to just look through death notices at the social security index and "convert" the names they find.
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@techprincess nope... wrong. Only family members can baptize the dead... well put in to be baptized.
So for example (I was raised LDS so... lets say I go nuts and go back to church). If you died (eep!) I could not say @techprincess is dead! lets dunk her! ... I'd have to be a sibling, grandchild, etc etc etc to submit it.
The fact is the LDS church messed up with some of these baptisms. Period. It angered me (and I live in utah)
But... their members DO believe you have to be baptized in order to get into their heaven... so they're doing it with the best of intentions! ... but you DO have to be related.
Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming. What do we do? We swim, swim. -
@luvlyssa this thread is about them posthumously baptizing Jewish people (in particular Anne Frank and holocaust victims). I can guarantee you no one in their families requested it. While they may only supposed to be baptizing people at the request of family, that's obviously not all they're doing. (at least some branches, I don't think it's the whole religion that's doing it, just some over zealous branches of it)
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*nods* @canadianmama supposedly (according to the news) what happened was some... uhm... lets call them "enthusiastic" member lied and did it. (and has since been banned from submitting names supposedly... don't know if I believe THAT)
But there was some crap that came down when this came out.. it got a very stern letter from the president of the church saying not to. Do people still do it? likely!
Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming. What do we do? We swim, swim. -
I grew up Mormon too and did baptisms for the dead tons of time. (Left the church 2 years ago and have completely different views now). They did change the rules to only be able to submit names that you have a blood line to, then you or whoever just shows up at the temple can do the proxy baptism for the submitted names. They also seal family members together as a family unit for eternity.
Here's what they are thinking from someone who has done it.(again not my views now) They belong to the ONE and ONLY true church and it is their responsibility to convert the world. They believe that those who die unbaptized to them are in a type of limbo (spiritual prison) until they decide with their free will to accept the "gospel". So if that was true, one dies and realizes that the LDS church is true, they would want to be baptized into it, but can't because they don't have a body to do it. So, the living members are baptized in proxy for them, JUST in case they do accept it in the afterlife. It does NOT make them a member or convert them, it just makes the "saving ordinance" available for those they feel would be stuck in spiritual prison without it. The decease still choose it. Their intentions are good no matter how misguided.
The founder Joseph Smith Jr. didn't even teach this. The man who took over after he was killed changed everything and is responsible for this as other doctrines that Brigham Young added or changed. Brigham was deeply affected by the death of his first wife.
I'm sorry my past actions have offended many. At the time, it was done with the same compassion any religious person feels when they THINK they are doing god's will and helping his children. (yup i was arrogant and prideful) It was seen as giving a precious gift to someone waiting in the afterlife. I'm glad they at least changed the rules to family line only submittals. It's rather ridiculous to me now. I believe all religions have a hand fucking up this world, this is just another example. Baptism is just symbolic anyway...thinking it must physically be done in any religion is just as insane as the Mormon's view of proxy.
I'm always misunderstood because the written word is the worst form of communication...you can't see me smiling =-) -
to add my two cents worth. When they say it has to be a family member that does not need to even mean a close family member. it can be a 5th cousin you have never met or a great great great great great grandsons wife.
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My sister spends every waking moment of her life submitting our ancestors names. My father in law spends all of his time entering names into his computer that others have submitted. Certainly not something I agree with but it is the way it is done in that church.
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yup geneology is seen as a huge service to those who have passed on. And the direct line can be distant, so I can see the possiblity that Anne Frank may have a distant relation that is Mormon. Tons of famous people have been baptized for the dead by mormons like all the founding fathers, etc.
But again, it's not counting anyone as a member...
If only they would spend all that money, time and effort into the LIVING instead of the dead.... =-(
I'm always misunderstood because the written word is the worst form of communication...you can't see me smiling =-) -
This is absolutely sick and a slap in the face to the Jewish people who suffered and died in the Holocaust!!! What they went through was horrendous and one of the darkest times in history! to insult her memory by implying that she needs to be baptized as a mormon is absolutely ridiculously abhorrent!!!!! What the fuck is wrong with some people??????
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That would be the same as if I went to Auschwitz and sprinkled holy water and tried to baptize all the dead there claiming that they are in purgatory because they are not Catholic!!!!!! What an f'ing insult to the memory of her and her family's horrific suffering!!!!
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As a former Mormon, I find most everything about the cult *cough* church repulsive.
I am glad I got out when I did. To baptize the dead is quite persumptuous and arrogant, in small words.
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Ok so I'm going out on a limb here and reveal something about myself that I normally don't. It is called Baptism for the Dead or Baptism by Proxy. You don't have to be related to someone to suggest them or to be baptized for them. The Mormons consider that their church is the only true church so they take the 'responsibility' of trying to make sure that every living person has the chance to choose it. And..,if you lived in a time or place where you didn't get to make the choice, baptism for the dead gives you that chance. It is not a baptism into membership but into having a choice.
That being said the church has agreed to discontinue generic baptisms for victims of the Holocaust but there are apparently some sneaky temple workers getting some through.
I did get baptized for the dead when I was 13 in the Provo Utah temple. I no longer practice the religion but my value system is deeply rooted in that culture. My great grandmother was a handcart pioneer and walked from Missouri to Idaho at the age of 9. My grandfather was baptized in a warm, coal pond in Wales at age 10 and emigrated to Utah at 18.
I now swear way too much and am too much of a deviant to be a part of any freakin church. I'm not sure if that means my BFTD efforts will stick if for some crazy reason the Mormons end up being right about all this crap. Im not sure what ill say at the Pearly Gates if they are right. Like, uh ya God, i was a chosen one and born right into your latter day church and then... I walked away. Hmm its not looking good right now is it?
I just tell DH I'll wait for him in the dark. I'm okay with that. -
@GYPSYMAMA hahahahahah :) You came out of the dark... ;) just go back in with me. We'll offer brownies to anyone who joins us ;) it's not so bad... it's warm....
Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming. What do we do? We swim, swim. -
@gypsymama busy with job hunting, interviews, and dr appointments. :)
as for "if" they're right... honestly? I just can't logically make it right. I've tried. I was lds for years (even in my adult years off and on) and ... it lacks logic. I feel the same way about churchs that teach that we go to HELL if we aren't baptized or if we're baptized mormon we go to HELL.
Frankly... and this sounds ... uhm... i dunno. mushy. My God... is similar to the way the LDS folk teach it, in the respect that he's my father.. I know He loves me... and wants me to be happy. so I figure as long as I don't hurt others (in a huge way) or anything like that? I'm not worried. I think God wants us all to return to him... so he'll do everything he can to make that happen. Can you imagine "letting" your child go to the outer reaches of hell because he/she was .. gay or blonde or ate bacon?
:( seems unlikely... but then again.. wtf do I know?
I just think the lds church is wrong on this.
Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming. What do we do? We swim, swim.

















