Jill Smokler, AKA Scary Mommy
@scarymommy
Latest posts by Jill Smokler, AKA Scary Mommy (see all)
- The Disney Reveal - May 14, 2013
- Met My Match At Disney… - May 13, 2013
- Sunday’s Baltimore Sun - May 11, 2013
Marta, is a working mom of 5 year old Ben and 18 month old Bella. In between juggling parenting, working with an evil boss, she also has two very poorly behaved dogs making her just one farm animal shy of a circus. She blogs about life, love, and everything in the middle at Lost and Forgotten. She may also have an unhealthy addiction to her iphone.
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“Nobody said it was easy. Nobody ever said it would be this hard.”
I have a love/hate relationship with friendship. I need it, the way life needs light and oxygen. The way we need our hearts to beat. Never having been a person who could solely rely upon me, being a person who hates to be alone like a form of water torture, I am shaped by relationships. They hone me, the endless crashing waves smoothing my idiosyncrasies.
Family failed me. Relationships bound by blood and circumstance don’t have the same value to me as those found and cultivated through time, love and genuine interest. Yet when those stutter. When there is a moment of divergence the pain is all the more real.
“But I promise you this, I’ll always look out for you, That’s what I’ll do.”
I am mystified at what it is ingrained in female nature that causes us to be so awful to one another. In a way I have never observed in male relationships or within those I have with men. When I look at my daughter and imagine the woman she’ll grow to be, I wonder if she will gossip behind a friend’s back. Connive and steal attention. Will friends lay in her wake, tear stained pillowcases and hurt feelings.
What can a parent do to prevent the phenomenon of the mean girl? Why do women break each other down to crawl to the top? Why do we never say what we mean and hurt because no one understands? Why does our jealously allow us to wish for the worst in the one we admire?
Perhaps I am simply too sensitive. Too caring. Too compassionate. Too everything that I want my daughter to have, but in excess. I know I will have to brush tears off her cheeks, smooth her hair back, and tell her it isn’t fair. It isn’t fair that someone who says they are your friend treats you poorly. And I hope that no mother sits upon her daughter’s bed consoling a child hurt by mine.
“Lights will guide you home. And ignite your bones. And I will try to fix you.”
How can I teach my daughter to be secure but not cocky? To love deeply without the consequence of loving more than you are loved. To be kind and considerate, but not a pushover. To never wish you felt less, simply because you hurt more. For in her I see all the potential to be the person I never was.
How do I give her the best of me without the worst?
{Lyrics from Coldplay: The Scientist, Sparks and Fix You.}
{ 101 comments… read them below or add one }
Great post!
I’ve sat ringside and watched my wife battle it out with her friends numerous times. From a guy’s point of view, it looks exhausting! :P
Oh, and when you figure out how to avoid raising a ‘mean girl’ please let me know. I have two little girls, one of them with the personality of a moody teenager. The other one is too young to tell, but she cries. A lot. Thats got to mean something, right?
Chris @ CleverFather recently posted..How Busy Dads Stay Fit
Maybe she’ll get it all out now and be perfect as a teenager :-)
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
This is why I am so glad I have a son instead of a daughter. I never want to deal with that petty, mean girl crap, and it’s exactly why I only have a few close girlfriends. Who has the time and energy to deal with it.
Kristin recently posted..My Raspberry Mistake
Depressing (sexist?) outlook, Kristin. I have two girls and couldn’t be happier.
Miranda Makes recently posted..a teething babe and her toy
Miranda- are your girls in junior high or high school yet? I had several friends with older girls and have seen them come home crying because of the back and forth girl drama. One day they are bff then the next enemies.
I’m not saying little boys don’t do mean things to each other too, but girls are notorious for this psychological warfare. Which is what this blog post seemed to be about.
I had only a couple good girlfriends in school that were about the drama and we hung out with they guys because we didn’t want to deal with it.
Look at you. You didn’t comment on the article at all but chose to disagree with me instead. Trying to pick a fight for no reason. Do you not have any comments for the blogger about her article. Any proof since you have girls that she is wrong about mean girls?
Kristin recently posted..My Raspberry Mistake
Kristen, It seems like in this and other comments below, you are pinning me as a “mean girl”. I’m not, for the record. I have had good and bad experiences with female relationships as well as male relationships. I do think that when we start generalizing women as being catty, mean and petty, it starts to enter the sexist realm. Some of the most thoughtful, kind and loyal people I know are women… and some are men. I’m not sure why you reacted so strongly and aggressively to my two sentence comment. I really did just think your outlook seemed kind of depressing and sexist. I love having daughters. That’s all.
Miranda Makes recently posted..you are my sunshine
“I am mystified at what it is ingrained in female nature that causes us to be so awful to one another. In a way I have never observed in male relationships or within those I have with men.” Marta.– (The one who wrote the blog post, who we should be directing our comments to.)
Right in the blog Marta talks about the difference in relationships with men and women. I was not the first to bring up the point. It seems to me that some people are missing that part of the blog and acting like I was the one to bring it up.
The reason I wrote about “mean girls” is the blogger seemed to be writing from experience about a woman who she considered a friend that did something to hurt her, I did not do it to generalize women but to agree with her that yes women can be awful to each other, because she is the one who originally said it.
I reacted strongly because in two lines you called me depressing and sexist. If felt like an attack.
Of course you couldn’t be happier with your girls, and I couldn’t be happier with my son. However if I had a daughter instead, I would be just as happy with her, because she would be my child.
What kind of parents would we be if we wished our child was someone else?
Tone is hard to get across when we type so I will rewrite my post to make it more clear:
“This is why I am so glad I have a son instead of a daughter. LOL. ;) ;) ;)
I never want to deal with that petty, mean girl crap,
(by petty, mean girl crap I am saying that the crap that mean girls do to other people is petty)
and it’s exactly why I only have a few close girlfriends. (because the ones who turned out to be ‘mean girls’ are no longer my friends.)
Who has the time and energy to deal with it.
(It it emotionally draining and time consuming to deal with people who hurt us for their own amusement.)”
Perhaps this rewrite will make my comment more clear and people will stop trying to peg me as the sexist one, out to pigeon hole women into generalized categories, because “mean girls” are petty and catty there is no excuse for their behavior. But the words petty and catty sure seem like accurate descriptions of it.
If your intention was not to attack me, I am sorry for seeing it that way, but that is how I read it. Like I said tone is hard to imply online.
Kristin recently posted..My Raspberry Mistake
I don’t think it’s limited to the female persuasion. I have two sons and my 11yo has to go through the same petty, jealous, crap when mean,insecure boys prey on him and bully him. They say some horrible, awful things to him and as much as I want to say “punch their lights out”, I have to counsel him to ignore it and take him to the psychiatrist because they make him hate going to school (but he loves the actual learning part). My son has a tender-hearted, sweet and giving soul, I absolutely hate to see it trampled on by horrible kids who take his school uniform pants in gym class and put them in the toilet and pee on them, boo him when he wins the science fair, and pretend to be his friend just so he will give him his lunch or money or whatever, because he will give them the shirt off of his back if he thinks they are his friend that day.
@Robin I raised a son who went through the same things in school – it got so bad that I enrolled him in online classes and home schooled him, while I was working a full time job. The end of the story is that he is now the boss – he is making 6 figures and is a personal and professional success. I don’t know about all of the bullies that he was tormented by, but I do know that one of them to jail and the other one is a waiter. My son kept his sweet, kind nature – and married a sweet wonderful girl, who gave him 2 lovely daughters. Hang in there Robin – tell your son how proud you are of him, and let him know that one day these guys will be coming to him for a job :).
Thank you DeMarie, for the encouragement! :) I put a lot of weight on advice from “moms who have lived through it”. I’m so glad to hear your son made it through and became a success.
I do tell my DS that I am proud of him all the time and my husband and I are coaching him to be a servant-leader since he has that quality naturally. I hope that these trials will prove to make him a stronger man in the future, but as a mom, it’s the hardest thing to watch! I often tell him that those boys will end up working for him one day!
Robin I don’t deny that bullying exists among boys, but they don’t seem to have the frienemy dynamic that girls do.
I am sorry your son has to deal with bullying. I fear for when my son will have to go to school one day and possibly deal with it as well. I saw it with my brother as he grew up, but I also experienced the mean girls myself, which can be just as psychologically damaging.
Anyone who thinks mean girls don’t exist either grew up in a fairy tale (who am I kidding, even Cinderella had her evil step sisters) or was a mean girl themselves and is now in denial.
Kristin recently posted..My Raspberry Mistake
Kristin,
When it comes to your take on this whole ‘mean girls’ phenomenon, I’ve gotta say I think you’re bang on. I’ve got 2 young boys, and I’m not naive enough to believe that boys don’t fall prey to bullies. Of course they do and that should never be brushed under the rug. I’ve got no patience for the whole “boys will be boys” mentality. Still, the ‘psychological warfare’, as you called it, seems to be heightened in groups of girls. I’ve both suffered at the hands of nasty highschool girls and I’ve been guilty of some pretty cruel acts. I’m not suggesting that we dismiss the suffering of boys, as a mother of 2 boys I could never do that, we do have to be more mindful emotional and social abuse girls inflict on eachother. I wrote 2 blogs on the subject:
http://cricktricks.blogspot.ca/2011/09/confessions-of-former-mean-girl.html
http://cricktricks.blogspot.ca/2012/01/hoping-to-be-golden-girl.html
P.S. I’m totally going to try those latkes, I’m already drooling.
Suzie recently posted..See Ya Later, Tonsils!
Very good posts in your blog!
I agree with you that the boys will be boys mentality is crap. None of our children should be allowed to physically or mentally bully each other. You are right that now with all of the social media there is no escape. It is up to parents to put a stop to it, teaching their children right from wrong.
P.S. I am quite fond of cowboy boots myself!
Kristin recently posted..My Raspberry Mistake
Robin, I worry about that sometimes with my son when he gets older. He’s also a very tenderhearted soul. It’s hard because you don’t want to take that away from him, but I would hate having those horrible things happen to my son. I’ve never understood why we (men and women both) can treat each other so poorly for no reason at all. Perhaps I’m too tenderhearted like our sons!
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Robin, I read this post yesterday and couldn’t stop thinking about your sweet boy. I have an almost 6 year old who I see as being like your son in the future. He’s still in pre-k right now but I know once he hits grade school his sweet, tender soul will be ripped apart by asshole kids. I am not a very religious person anymore but I do pray for my son and I will add your son in my prayers. best of luck for him.
I love having a daughter, mostly because I have these hopes of her being and having everything I didn’t. Am I looking forward to when she’s a teenager? Not exactly. I agree with your comment back to Miranda that girls do tend to play more psychological warfare than physical. I never did that and I’m hoping my daughter won’t either.
I have close female friendships, but they are infinitely more work than the male ones. I don’t have the SATC glamorized version of best friends, but there is advice and comfort that sometimes only a girl can give you!
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I love having daughters as well, and am glad that they don’t have a mother who prefers boys to “petty” girls. I actually know parents of girls who make those kind of hurtful remarks (usually complete with rolled eyes and complaints about their daughters’ “draaaama”), and it makes me just want to shake the crap out of them. (The parents!) My daughters and my sons are all being taught that other people’s feelings matter.
Jadzia@Toddlerisms recently posted..Bloggerina
I love my son for who he is, not just because he is a boy. If I had a daughter I would love her just as much for who she is and I would teach her to stand up for herself and put mean girls in their place, because one thing I’ve learned over the years about mean girls is if you call them out on their bs and stand up for yourself they have no power because they are insecure and need to prey on the weak.
That being said if you think girls don’t act catty to each other reread your responses to my post.
Did any one comment to:
Chris who posted that
“I’ve sat ringside and watched my wife battle it out with her friends numerous times. From a guy’s point of view, it looks exhausting!”
or to Sarah
” I, as well, am happy to have sons instead of daughters. I have had a hard time with friendships as well (I don’t gossip, but I do get bored easily, and let others slip away), and in comparison, my sons’ relationships seem so effortless, so easy.”
or Modern Style Mama
“What a great post. Girls can be so vicious. So much drama can come from female relationships. I think a lot of it is insecurity and the inability to have different opinions without being very judgmental.”
Nope, it was easier to hop on the band wagon with Miranda and attack one person for an opinion. And didn’t you, Jadzia, just say you are teaching your children that other people’s feelings matter….
I swear some of you only replied to my comment because it was toward the top of the list and want to drive traffic to your own blogs….
I am not saying “draaaama” to a child or even about a specific child, and would never actually do it to a child, especially my own.
Most women grew up in school with these conflicts and can easily agree the best word to describe them is “drama”. Dictionary.com: dra·ma- “any situation or series of events having vivid, emotional, conflicting, or striking interest or results.”
The point is we are all glad the “drama” is over. So let it be over and direct your comments to the actual blog post which is about the drama of mean girls and the frienemy dynamic between women, rather the picking fights with me. I will continue to come back and defend myself because, like I said the best way to deal with a mean girl is to call them out and show them you will not be easy prey.
Kristin recently posted..My Raspberry Mistake
Nicely said, Kristin.
BTW- When I say “petty, mean girl crap” the word “petty” is describing the mean girl behavior, not girls in general.
Kristin recently posted..My Raspberry Mistake
Kirstin… you are the one who keeps fighting back and acting like a mean girl here, just because your original comments were a little off, and some people took offence to them. Just apologise and you’ll realise we’re all on the same page really.
I think in your post you were saying that you wouldn’t want to deal with girls being mean to your daughter (if you had one). But it came off sounding like you were really insulting your (potential) daughter and calling her catty and mean. Or insulting all women by suggesting they are like that. I’m sure that’s not what you meant but I think that raised hackles.
I am sorry you people continue to mis-read the intent of my post. (and completely ignored the several times I have explained what I intended my statement to mean.)
If it was possible to delete the whole darn thing I would cause honestly I am sick of this crap that happened more than a month ago.
I will re-state my point that the original blog writer brought up the entire concept of mean girls and none of you comment about her post, just mine. Where is your comment to the blog author cg26? No where, you had to stick you two cents in and write to me.
In case you missed it when I “re-wrote” my post to make it more clear to understand and stop the comments from coming to me here it is:
Tone is hard to get across when we type so I will rewrite my post to make it more clear:
“This is why I am so glad I have a son instead of a daughter. LOL. ;) ;) ;)
I never want to deal with that petty, mean girl crap,
(by petty, mean girl crap I am saying that the crap that mean girls do to other people is petty)
and it’s exactly why I only have a few close girlfriends. (because the ones who turned out to be ‘mean girls’ are no longer my friends.)
Who has the time and energy to deal with it.
(It it emotionally draining and time consuming to deal with people who hurt us for their own amusement.)”
Perhaps this rewrite will make my comment more clear and people will stop trying to peg me as the sexist one, out to pigeon hole women into generalized categories, because “mean girls” are petty and catty there is no excuse for their behavior. But the words petty and catty sure seem like accurate descriptions of it.
If your intention was not to attack me, I am sorry for seeing it that way, but that is how I read it. Like I said tone is hard to imply online.
(cg26– You will note in the last two line the phrase I’m sorry appears…)
Kristin recently posted..Food Snob?
All the girls treated and continue to treat me like shit for my whole life. I have 2 sons, I hope they are better at making and keeping friends than their loser mother. All I ever wanted was friends, and all I ever got was used and tossed to the wayside when I ran out of things to give. I suppose being a gigantic fat and ugly girl is even harder than being a cute catty girl, but what do I know? Luckily I’ve got a small handful of friends now, but I don’t get too close… the wall I’ve built is too high and too thick, and I don’t even know how to be a good friend. I’m awkward and uncomfortable most of the time.
I’m sorry that people have treated you so badly. You must stop looking at yourself as a loser. Your kids’ mom deserves to feel good about herself so that they will have a healthy view of a self-confident woman. Be your own friend and you will learn how to be a good friend to others.
Brabbler1 recently posted..How does a “Christian Nation” Reconcile Itself With Stand Your Ground?
Oh, honey, this hurts my heart. You are NOT alone. You have got to love yourself first. If you don’t, others won’t know how to. I’m glad you’ve got a small group of friends now. You have to open yourself up to trust at some point; not everyone is out to demean or belittle you. I hope you find the strength to see beyond past hurts and enjoy a true, open, and honest friendship. You are neither a loser nor alone, and you deserve friends who see that.
Arnebya recently posted..BlogHer Syndication
I agree with the other two comments. I’m so sorry you feel that way. I tend to take things very personally and have felt that way before, but its always been fleeting for me. Once your guard is up, it is so hard to ever let it down. The fear of rejection seems to override any gain we could seem to achieve from letting someone in. I hope you can find a balance and let them get closer without worrying about being too exposed.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Thank you! As a woman I have had these reletionships with other women. I want to raise my girls to be ‘nice girls’ not ones that prey upon others feelings. I don’t have many female friends because of the cattiness with females. I realize I’m as guilty as everyone else. I have a few females friends I know I never have to compete with, who are there for the positives. And I wish more women could be as lovely as those ladies because I truly wish I had more close females friends as much as I love my male friend. They just do not understand Monthlys or pms. Here is hoping we as women can bond together and quit being so evil to one another.
I completely agree. My close female friends tend to feel the same way I do and that helps. We all feel more comfortable in the company of men, and are put off by the gossiping catty nature that often a group of women have. Am I the only one who watches the Housewives of Every County? Doesn’t matter your race or economic status if you put too many women together you’re unfortunately bound to have drama. I really which this wasn’t so often true. Maybe if we each teach our daughters not to behave this way this stereotype of women will eventually cease to exist.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Amen. And I think you teach her by sharing your words and experience as appropriate. Your actions will show her how to be a friend and how to figure out who to be friends with.
jenn recently posted..Mirrors
=) I think you’re right. If only most of my close female friends didn’t live out of state I could model them better in person. Perhaps an argument to my husband why we need to move back to Chicago.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Friendship gives me a headache. It is so much bloody work. I love your song reference.
Life with Kaishon recently posted..Exceptional Little Moments {Philadelphia Senior Portrait Photography}
Thanks Kaishon!
I agree it’s a lot of work. I have many times wished I was a more independent person and didn’t *need* them so much.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I have found it easier to not have close friends. I’ll stick with my like minded friends who we chat all the time, but aren’t needy nellies. we dont’ gossip and we dont’ have time for drama. We are all moms who have busy lives and get it.
I had a friend once who didn’t fit the same mold as me and when I asked her to step back and stop smoothering me (but in nice words), she stopped callling, and wouldn’t return my calls. Maybe I wasn’t nice enough, but I was true to me.
I try to instill in my daughter to be nice to everyone, because we are all different. I do not want a mean girl on my hands and try to keep an eye out for signs that she’s being mean.
Regina recently posted..Apple Strudel Muffins
I agree with the concept of being nice to everyone. I try to abide by the premise that we should treat others how we want to be treated. Unfortunately, I often give everything for close friends because that’s how I would want to be treated.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Oh, the complicated nature of friendship among women. It’s a gong show. I’ve survived the dramatics of my high school friendships and moved onto deeper relationships in my 30′s. I wrote about it on my own blog: http://cricktricks.blogspot.ca/2012/01/hoping-to-be-golden-girl.html
Suzie Reynolds-Crick recently posted..See Ya Later, Tonsils!
=) Going to read it now. You know I’ve never watched the Golden Girls? Clearly I need to remedy that!
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I like having online, long distance, female friends. There’s no competition, only cheers, support and/or commiseration.
In real life, I have two very close friends. That’s enough.
After 30+ years of trying to navigate the friendship roller coaster, it’s over. The choice to lose the drama and toxicity of other females was one of the best choices I ever made.
I’m also mother to a 7 year old girl. She’s tender and considerate although pretty opinionated for her age. I want her to be a little tougher emotionally, but would be very ashamed to raise a mean girl.
I don’t think I could ever make the choice to let it all go, but if it worked for you I’m glad =)
There is definitely competition and cliques in the online world, I’m always surprised when people don’t see it. I’m glad you found a group that you can get support from.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I wonder the same thing all of the time. I’ve learned over time how to give myself what I need and not rely on friends & family as much. It’s not always easy. Sometimes you want a friend you can rely on.
I have a very hard time relying on family. I know now I have my own family that I made, but there still something unwilling in me to completely rely on them. I think its very important to learn to rely on yourself, something I am slowly getting better at.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
At the age of 48 I FINALLY have some of the best friends anyone could ask for! It took years, and a lot of really crappy ones to get here though. I even got a letter in the mail from a BEST FRIEND stating that she was in a good place and had a great family, and preferred to associate with people with the same. WHAT! Total devastation. In bed crying for days. It was like she was divorcing me. This holier than thou B ended up working for a church (how special), and screwing every guy she could (whore). Hypocrite! People have no clue. But in my heart, I know. And I know I deserve to be friends with people who aren’t mean, or whores ;) We reconnected for a short time, but I couldn’t go back, even with a big apology. I realized I deserved better. So do you. And your daughter will see that. And she’ll learn to be a good friend by watching you be one. :)
Ah the friend divorce. Those are awful. It happened to be me recently. Luckily it wasn’t that good of a friend so I wasn’t as torn up about it, but still hurt. Basically he said I wasn’t happy enough for him. I apologized that I was going through a really hard time at work and that it seemed to be annoying for him to give a damn and I haven’t spoken to him since (or missed him for that matter.)
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
The trauma of a mother. We know what we are as women and as girls we complain about it and yet we perpetuate it.
I am raising 2 teenage girls and the wiping of tears and not fair statements are in full force. All I can do is try to teach them not to perpetuate the behavior even more.
Sweety Darlin’ recently posted..CANCER …….. YOU BITCH!!!!!
I think that’s all we can really do.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Adult relationships are one of my biggest struggles. How do you deal with a friend who doesn’t understand the difference between “friend” and “life-coach?” What does friendship look like when there are serious disagreements about child-rearing? What if you don’t like her kids? How do you push forward through the times when you actually don’t like her that much? And (cringe), how do you deal with the humiliation of knowing that she probably feels the same way about you, your kids, and your life sometimes?
All very good questions! I don’t know what you do other than completely ignore the topic of family, but how do you do that when its such an integral part of your life? I often don’t talk about my kids to my single friends because well a feeling of they don’t care/understand. But at the same time they’re missing out a large part of my life because of it.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Finding real friends, true friends is definitely a life journey and an emotional one at that. I used to think friendship was everything….and with your true friends, they are….but it takes a long time and a lot of failed friendships to find them.
This is why, as mom, my only hope is to help my daughter understand this. And that I will always be there for her no matter how her friendships are.
I almost wish you could have “the talk” in friendships the way you can in a relationship. The where do you see this going conversation. How much easier would it be to know that someone isn’t looking for that close/true friendship but more just an acquaintance. Which is fine you need those too, but then you won’t be hurt when the friendship isn’t going where you expect/want it to.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
This is a challenge I think almost every day, I still haven’t figured out how I can share what I know with her in a way she’ll understand.
Wonderful post, Marta! I wish I had the answers, but I think the fact that you’re asking these questions puts you ahead of the game. Your shining example of compassion may be enough to inspire your daughter not to be one of the mean girls, but it may be a long journey to get there. And by that I mean she has to get through middle school first, LOL
Jules recently posted..How I Almost Walked the Red Carpet Last Week
Thank you Jules :-)
And god, yes, middle school. The worst time in any girls life.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I have had great luck with friendships. My core group of friends right now are women (and a few men) that I couldn’t imagine being without. They feel as much my family as my actual family.
It wasn’t always this way. I do wonder how to teach my girls that friendship should be treasured, but that never should they be the mean girl or the walked all over girl. It’s a fine line and we talk about it constantly as friends move, change schools, new kids come, etc. This shit is hard. But what I made it a point to do was instill in them that their first friend should always been themself, then their siblings. If you ever worry about who loves you, who has your back, your first thought should be my sister, my brother. I didn’t have that with my sisters and I think it’s unfortunate.
Arnebya recently posted..BlogHer Syndication
What a great point of view. My son is 5 and my daughter 3, and already I’m trying to instill this in them, but I have not put it so beautifully as you!
I agree with Scarlet that’s a great point of view. I’ve never been one to rely on myself and I would really like to be able to do that.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I, as well, am happy to have sons instead of daughters. I have had a hard time with friendships as well (I don’t gossip, but I do get bored easily, and let others slip away), and in comparison, my sons’ relationships seem so effortless, so easy.
Sarah recently posted..Weekend Wrap Up: Missed Callings & Twitterisms
I think because boys don’t read into things. I notice that with my husband. He has few close friends, but the ones he has if he doesn’t talk to them for awhile he doesn’t think about it and when they speak/see each other again its normal. With women you’re always wondering if there’s an ulterior motive why you aren’t speaking. Are they mad at me, not my friend anymore, etc. There’s not enough straightforwardness.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I love that song! I have three girls, and I worry about the same thing. I am teaching my children to show kindness. On the flip side, I tell my girls that there will be people that will make fun of them at school, and that it is because they are jealous of something that my girls have that said person does not. Be it material or not. I always let them know that they will not be friends with everyone and that they should cherish the friendships that they have and to not worry about the ones they do not. So far so good. I know it will be a different story soon.
Seriously Sassy Mama recently posted..Sacrifices
I say that to my son sometimes when kids are mean (how are they already mean at 5?) That often its because they’re unhappy or sad, or jealous of something he has and that he can’t let their negative actions affect him nor should he behave that way.
I need to remember myself, “…not to worry about the ones they do not”
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
It was strange that I was contemplating the same thing this morning on my drive to work. How do I teach my daughter to have confidence but not be cocky? How do I teach her to love but not be a push over or a mean girl?
I think the conclusion I came to was this:
I have to teach her to love herself, truly and honestly, faults and all. I have to teach her that sometimes we mess up. Sometimes we’re not as good as we want to be. And that hurts. And it’s okay to feel that hurt but not to dwell in it. To accept and continue to love.
Then I can teach her to love others exactly the way she loves herself.
Krista recently posted..Part 2: Really Universe? Not cool. Not cool at all.
Krista, I think those are all really great points. I think a lot of it comes from yourself. From having the confidence and security that you don’t need to hurt others and that shields you from being hurt by others.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
This is a tough one for me. Right now there I am so sick of the mommy battles I feel like is should just give up on having female friends altogether. Before marriage I had mostly guy friends, not a big surprise because went to architecture school (mostly men) & I worked in an architects offices (OMG almost totally, entirely men, save the only other woman who seemed to hate me). The thing is now that I’m ‘married with children’ it seems inappropriate to have guy pals, and I don’t know if it’s my hang up, or they’re hang up, or my husbands hang up. I don’t think it’s me, because I’m completely used to the mean-girl finger-pointing and I’ve almost embraced the ‘slut’ moniker. But there are only women in the playground, diapers and binky land and I feel extremely isolated.
So 267 weeks into my 12 week maternity leave I am totally craving going back to work, or something. I wish I knew how to teach my daughter how to be good friend, how to find them and how not to get cought up in the mean-girl BS. Honestly I think if there was just a little more gender equality girls and women would feel free to be themselves, and to compete with the whole world to be the best instead of looking at just their BFF to tear down (over something pety) so she can feel better.
Thanks for the post this has been knocking around in my head for a while lately, and you articulated a lot of what I’ve been feeling.
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I 100% know what you mean. In college I always had more friends that were guys than girls and by default I would often become friends with their girlfriends. I don’t understand why girl/boy friendships still have such a stigma as adults. The worst I remember was that I had to go to the bachelorette party for my friend’s wedding even though I didn’t know any of the girls, but knew all the boys simply because I was a girl!
It’s hard to make NEW guy friends as a married woman with two kids, there feels something illicit about it. Not from my point of view, or even my husband’s who knows I just get a long better with men, but for the guy. They feel like it’s somehow inappropriate to be friends with a married woman (especially if they’re a single guy.) I struggle with this with my closest friend. We talk every single day, but when it comes to in person he gets very strange about doing things unless it’s in a group setting.
Another thing I hope future women remedy. More equality, and more acceptance for male/female platonic relationships.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Let me know if you figure it out, because I am right there with you. Great post!
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Thanks!
I agree, girls do tend to do more of the gossiping and drama, but I also think it can be hard for boys. I think girls and boys are taught to approach friendships differently in general. Girls are taught to get close and share secrets, while boys are taught to play sports together, but not share what they’re thinking or feeling. It seems that girls put it on the line and risk betrayal, while boys keep everything at the surface level. Boys then have a lot less of a risk of betrayal.
Recovering Supermom recently posted..Twelve Things That Make Life Easier
I agree with the fact that boys are taught not to share feelings and emotions. Being a friend to lots of guys I definitely struggle with that because women are usually more willing to reveal their feelings. But I do love that in male relationships the guy is often much more willing to acknowledge when something is bothering him and to address it directly and be less passive about it which is something I definitely appreciate.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
It exists on the male side as well. Boys can be cruel and men can be asses. Its often expressed different, but it is there.
You’re right, it definitely is.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Great read…and yep, you are 100% right.
I agree:
“Nobody said it was easy. Nobody ever said it would be this hard.”
Carrie recently posted..And here’s what a naked face and ratty-ass, lookin-like-I-just-crawled-outta-bed hair will get you.
Thanks Carrie!
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
All you can do is your best — arm her with all the positive information you can and hope your daughter does the rest. Sometimes it takes having been trampled to learn not to trample others. I have 3 girls, 1st grade, 6th grade and Sophomore in college, plus an 8th grade son. (don’t ask…I don’t remember how it happened now…;-) As hard as I try to help them see how important it is to make and maintain healthy friendships there is still plenty of cat fighting. College kid is still struggling to find the way through the making and keeping of girlfriends. I see it most with the girls, but even the boys can be pretty ugly to each other.
I have crap relations with most of my family, but my closest girlfriends? We have had numerous disagreements over the years, we are all over 40 now and we have been friends since we were preteens, some even before that. As a group or as individuals, we have pretty much been through it all and when the shit hits the fan we each know that there is support — whether we are in agreement or not — when it is needed. That’s just the most amazing thing to me.
The women I have made and lost friendships with? Well, they were obviously never meant to be so I didn’t feed the fire when thing started to be obviously unhealthy. These women are also the ones who have the biggest dramas usually created by their own behavior and/or imaginations. I am by no means implying that I share no blame. I have caught myself going the wrong way many a time. The more important thing is whether we can recognize it in ourselves and then share that with our daughters. If they can learn to see their own behavior and correct it, that is a really big thing! That is when you know they will be able to NOT be MEAN girls!
MommaC recently posted..Aroma-Therapy
=) Its great that you have these close friendships. The close female friends I have I’ve known since elementary or high school. Its hard because they all live out of town so I struggle with not having in person friends to do something like see a movie or grab a coffee. The girl friends I’ve made here I just haven’t been able to get quite that friendship with. Always so much unnecessary drama. I feel like its harder to make friends as adults!
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
The problem with friendships and with women is that we can get very insecure and we don’t all agree on the same thing. Just because we are women doesn’t mean we see things through the same eye glasses (no matter what color they are). Love this post!
I agree about the insecurity if we were more secure in ourselves and friendships we wouldn’t always be worried that people were gossiping, etc!
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Sure, I went through periods of being the girl nobody liked (and was 17 times thre new girl in school). And I’ve known some bitchy adults. Yet somehow I’ve never bought into the idea that relationships between women are poisonous. I can’t imagine a history of pillows tear stained over issues with female friends.
Perhaps being the wallflower new girl so often taught me to observe people and avoid the drama queens and bitches and mean girls? Maybe moving and leaving friends behind taught me that live changes and there’s no reason for weeping? My relationships with other women has never been so emotional and tear filled.
I’m glad that you haven’t ever felt that way. Shows your secure enough in yourself to not need those friendships/acceptance.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I’m happy as a clam in my friendships at 31 years old. I’m very picky about who gets my time. That hasn’t always been the case, especially when I was 13. I will teach my daughter to treat others well and expect to be treated well. Beyond that, I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
Susan recently posted..Susan vs Salmon
=D I think the picky part is smart.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Love this! Women friends are the hardest to navigate; so much under the surface. So much drama and now we get to live it all over again with our kids! Ugh
Calgon take me away! (Does Calgon still exist?)
Lol, I think it does.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
It’s such a tightrope. And even when you say you’re not going to do it, you say or think or otherwise behave in a manner that contradicts what you want to do. My daughter is 13 months old, and I am constantly thinking about what I should do, what I should model, what I should teach, and at the same time, trying to deal with what I might see happening in her little life later on. It’s tough. I don’t know the answer. I’ve written about this myself at least once. Perhaps we will learn this together.
Stephanie recently posted..The Early Bird Gets Knocked Out
100% agree. Even today I was talking to two friends who are in a fight. While trying to be in the middle I was agreeing with both, who both have valid points. But neither realized I was talking to the other. It’s a slippery slope, but I try my best not to do things that would upset me if done to me!
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
What a great post. Girls can be so vicious. So much drama can come from female relationships. I think a lot of it is insecurity and the inability to have different opinions without being very judgmental.
I’ve learn the hard way that even when you think someone is a friend they can turn on you in a instant. That’s why I have many acquaintances and only a handful of really close friends. I’ve dealt with this issue just a couple years ago.
In general girls are way way worse than boys. But I will say that as a mom to all boys, my oldest who is only 7 has experienced some boys being pretty mean. It’s so hard to see your child get hurt. He wants to still be their friend regardless. I’ve tried to guide him in the right direction and explain he doesnt need to tolerate it. I couldn’t say it better, “Nobody said it was easy. Nobody ever said it would be this hard.” Geez!!!
All you can do is be there for your daughter and guide her in the right direction. Unfortunately our children (boys or girls) will learn from experience as we have.
Great post!
Modern Style Mama recently posted..Breakfast Egg Strata – Healthy Recipe Makeover
Thank you :-) I agree, no one realizes how hard its going to be but it almost has to be to learn from it.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Great post, I have a daughter and she had her heart broken by a little girl in preschool. After starting preschool she was trying to make friends, one day after school I asked her how her day went if she made friends and played. Her response was “Mommy (little girls name) does not want to be my friend, I told her let’s play you are my friend and she told me I am not your friend and did not play with me so I played by my self”
That broke my heart and I was lost for words, I had no idea I would feel so hurt that a little girl in preschool rejected my daughters friendship. I am pretty sure if this was to happen to my son he would just brush it off and move on. But till this day she still brings up the fact that this little girl rejected her as a friend. I also have no idea how to help her, what do I say to her to help her? I know that this will continue to happen as she gets older and I need to be ready to be there for her.
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=( That’s so sad, especially already in preschool. My son who just turned 5 so he’s in preschool has had a few times when his friends have been mean to him and he just doesn’t understand why. I don’t either really, they are friends and play well together usually but just sometimes he’ll say mean things for no apparent reason. I’m really sorry your daughter went through that, it breaks my heart too!
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
.. I wrote about this recently … “I want to teach you the importance of loving yourself while making sure you learn how to put others before you and the value of that; of recognizing more than yourself”
Kerry recently posted..I’m not a number!
I like that. I always put others before myself, but maybe sometimes I forget about the loving me too part.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
Ugh, I thought things were bad when I was in school. Can’t even imagine being a middle school girl now.
Mayor Gia recently posted..Dear Coworkers, Stop Sucking.
I know. High School was fine for me, middle school was the worst.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
This is all too relatable, and so very beautifully written.
(If you find out how we can smooth these ages, pass the word on, will you?)
Fantastic post, you two!
Galit Breen recently posted..I Didn’t Know
Thank you Galit!
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I love your closing line. I think this is such a hard question, because it is so hard to navigate a child’s way when you are just on the sidelines and can only hope they make the right choices, not make them for them. I agree that the dynamics in girls friendships are so very different from any other relationship. These friendships can build us up or tear us down; and it all shapes who we become.
Julia recently posted..Reflection and an Anniversary
I agree with everything that you said. “It all shapes who we become”
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I went through hell in high school. I was never popular and constantly bullied by mean girls whilst my older sister was the queen bee. I couldn’t understand why her and not me.
But through all the pain I learnt to be a very resiliant person. I learnt to spot mean girls and avoid them. I learnt that gossip, no matter how trivial is never worth it. I learnt to have compassion for others and that there is always two sides to a story. I learnt to make a concious choice about how I will conduct myself and the type of person I am.
I point blank refuse to get draw in on friends bitchyness and will not take sides. I decide if I like someone based on how they treat me, not because of rumours or someone elses opinion. I let any pettyness wash over me. And politely agree to disagree where there is a difference of opinion. I don’t judge others for their past mistakes. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and plenty of second chances. I treat others the way I want to be treated.
I can’t stop other people acting mean and bitchy but I don’t have to sink to their level. And I know can’t protect my DD from all the potential pitfalls and pains of life. But I can lead by example and tell her everyday that she’s is perfect just the way she.
‘No one can make you feel inferior without your permission’
I think you have absolutely excellent points Jane. While I always treat others the way I want to be be treated I have a harder time not letting the pettiness get to me or be hurt by often unintentional careless things. I think you’re going to be a great role model for your DD.
Marta recently posted..Scary, Scary, Scary
I totally feel you on this! I worry about the same thing with my daughter. She’s only in Kindergarten, and I already see that whole “I’m your friend one minute, and not the next” BS game starting. Ugh.
Yeah its surprising how young it starts. My son, 5, already has experienced some meanness between the boys. I had no recollection of all of this bullying/meanness before middle school. Is it starting earlier or is my memory just that fuzzy?
Marta recently posted..Content Discontent.
I have a 9 year old daughter and I watch how bad she feels when she’s treated badly by her “friends”. Then I turn around and she’s treating another friend the way she got treated. It’s a never ending cycle.
I remind her how she felt, then ask her how the friend she did it to feels. She seems to understand. Then the next day, it all happens again. So frustrating.
That is very frustrating, hopefully one day it will stick. You’re definitely doing the right thing by reminding her how she felt and not to treat others the same.
Marta recently posted..Content Discontent.
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